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My explanation to someone within the group would be somewhat different, as there are certain things that most atheists understand that religious people aren’t always aware of. I’m not familiar with your posting history, so I don’t know where you stand.
My explanation to someone within the group would be somewhat different, as there are certain things that most atheists understand that religious people aren’t always aware of. I’m not familiar with your posting history, so I don’t know where you stand.
She practices advaita. () And really, really dislikes atheists.
Not true. These are not grievances. these are historical truths that needs to acknowledged, reconciled, and repaired. Without that it will always be remembered. Dont tell victims to get over it.
There is a corollary to the adage:
Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat their mistakes.
It is that those who dwell on past grievances are doomed to perpetuate their negative effects within each new generation, fostering unearned victimhood on their descendants.
There definitely needs to be a statute of limitations on past grievances or they will continue to fester and engender even more discord and abreaction in each new generation.
Can we still remember World War 11? Or what Stalin did.
You wish to whitewash history? So in order to please your thoughts of past greivences when someone states that Christianity never created others poorly we now have to accept that as our new true history?
My grievance is just that, too many whitewash the past and make incorrect claims that distort history. It's like looking at the Arab Israeli conflict and claim that it is the Muslims always hating the Jews and ignoring the Balfour declaration, the way the British ignored the Arabs after helping them defeat the Ottawa Empire as well as the past great relationships the Jews had living in Muslim countries.
Your method allows for current conflicts to be viewed in a vacuum. So I will not. Until it changes I will hold Christians to blame for refusing to acknowledge the histories between Jews, Christians and Muslims was different in the past than it is now.
All you want are the blacks, Jews, natives, Mexicans etc to forget history so that you and your fellow believers in Christainity get to create a new history that makes yourselves able to claim superiority. That should not happen.
I am proud of my own country but I refuse to allow our negatives of the past to be forgotten and dwell only on the positive aspects. Thecsame with being an atheists or a white straight man or an ethnic Jew. I am what I am with both the good and the bad.
Sorry that you feel the past needs not be remembered except for the parts that make you feel good. Or that you question those who wish to know the past as it was so that the present can be better understood.
She practices advaita. () And really, really dislikes atheists.
Ahh, okay. It sounded like a question that a religious person would ask, but I didn’t want to assume incorrectly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cb2008
i have difficulty with atheists having no problem with religion per se, only with god. they participate in the 'cutural' aspects of their religion. I have heard this from both christians and muslims, a "cultural muslim".
what does that mean? They like church music and hymns but not what it says and expresses? like the easter egg hunt but not the resurrection? like the eid feasts but not the fasting? it seems shallow both their atheism and their belief. Just my opinion.
In terms of why Judaism continues to resonate with me on a cultural, communal, and ethnic level, my long post a few pages back covers it.
I also don’t have a “problem” with God. I simply don’t believe in God. Because I don’t treat my atheism like an organized religion (and rather few atheists do), I don’t see why my absence of a certain belief should require “depth.” Even religious people don’t “need” to be deeply religious to justify their belief structures. Religion, like most anything else, is a social construct, so there’s really no objective universal truths or taboos in terms of how each individual person determines their own levels of spirituality.
You are acting as if there has been nothing done to alter or change what was the source of past grievances. This is extraordinarily myopic of you. Do you really think nothing has been done or changed??? What exists today has no counterpart to what existed back then.
Do you think the past had no decision on the government's of Canada and the States turning back a ship full of Jewish German refugees at the start of the war back to Germany. Or that action plus the liberation of the death camps had n9t hung to do with the establishment of the state of Isreal which had been promised a generation before? Or that action affected the Arab Jewish conflict today? 9r that conflict had anything to do with the spread of Muslim fundamentalist? And that affected the 911 attack and wars in Afghanistan and Iraq?
Or that slavery, Jim Crow , segregation, civil rights era none had anythinh to do with the BLM and the current politics of today? Or the riots of 1918 to 21 destroying black businesses and communities did not play a part in the poverty of the current generation of blacks?
I remember the 1960s and watching the news to see what was happening. Some of those peoplecare still alive. You wish to say that this is all in the past? Wash old people's memories away becauae they are not yours?
Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat their mistakes.
It is that those who dwell on past grievances are doomed to perpetuate their negative effects within each new generation, fostering unearned victimhood on their descendants.
Quote:
Originally Posted by badlander
Can we still remember World War 11? Or what Stalin did.
Do you wish to whitewash history? So in order to please your thoughts of past grievances when someone states that Christianity never created others poorly we now have to accept that as our new true history?
My grievance is just that, too many whitewash the past and make incorrect claims that distort history. It's like looking at the Arab-Israeli conflict and claim that it is the Muslims always hating the Jews and ignoring the Balfour declaration, the way the British ignored the Arabs after helping them defeat the Ottawa Empire as well as the past great relationships the Jews had living in Muslim countries.
Your method allows for current conflicts to be viewed in a vacuum. So I will not. Until it changes I will hold Christians to blame for refusing to acknowledge the histories between Jews, Christians and Muslims was different in the past than it is now.
All you want are the blacks, Jews, natives, Mexicans, etc to forget history so that you and your fellow believers in Christianity get to create a new history that makes yourselves able to claim superiority. That should not happen.
I am proud of my own country but I refuse to allow our negatives of the past to be forgotten and dwell only on the positive aspects. The same with being an atheist or a white straight man or an ethnic Jew. I am what I am with both the good and the bad.
Sorry that you feel the past needs not be remembered except for the parts that make you feel good. Or that you question those who wish to know the past as it was so that the present can be better understood.
I seek to whitewash nothing and the past should be remembered, but NOT DWELT upon excessively as if the current issues today emanate from similar societal conditions! Teaching each new generation that they are victims of what they have NOT actually endured and that their "privileged others" are guilty of what THEY actually had nothing to do with is extremely dangerous and counterproductive. It fosters nothing good, just enmity and envy.
Ahh, okay. It sounded like a question that a religious person would ask, but I didn’t want to assume incorrectly.
In terms of why Judaism continues to resonate with me on a cultural, communal, and ethnic level, my long post a few pages back covers it.
I also don’t have a “problem” with God. I simply don’t believe in God. Because I don’t treat my atheism like an organized religion (and rather few atheists do), I don’t see why my absence of a certain belief should require “depth.” Even religious people don’t “need” to be deeply religious to justify their belief structures. Religion, like most anything else, is a social construct, so there’s really no objective universal truths or taboos in terms of how each individual person determines their own levels of spirituality.
Dont take Trout's opinions about me for anything like truth. He also really, really hates me and I have no idea why and I don't care to know his miserable reason.
Now that you know everything, thank you for the explanation.
I do consider my self religious, even though I dont follow any of the cultural and religious practices of Hinduism (which are I agree are a social construct.) Just so you know since it seemed important to you.
In my way of thinking it is the core belief structure of Advaita that is important to me. If I did not believe in it I would simply not believe in god or pray. So I am not a 'cultural Hindu" but a religious Hindu. If I were atheist I would not call myself a Hindu.
Thus the disconnect for me in understanding the position vis-a-vis god and religion/culture.
You are acting as if there has been nothing done to alter or change what was the source of past grievances. This is extraordinarily myopic of you. Do you really think nothing has been done or changed??? What exists today has no counterpart to what existed back then.
Until all people experience true equality the job remains unfinished. I'm of the same throw the aggrieved a bone philosophy as you.
Ahh, okay. It sounded like a question that a religious person would ask, but I didn’t want to assume incorrectly.
In terms of why Judaism continues to resonate with me on a cultural, communal, and ethnic level, my long post a few pages back covers it.
I also don’t have a “problem” with God. I simply don’t believe in God. Because I don’t treat my atheism like an organized religion (and rather few atheists do), I don’t see why my absence of a certain belief should require “depth.” Even religious people don’t “need” to be deeply religious to justify their belief structures. Religion, like most anything else, is a social construct, so there’s really no objective universal truths or taboos in terms of how each individual person determines their own levels of spirituality.
I like that last paragraph.
For me, the only time I think depth, better stated as where I stand, is when I begin to constantly question others belief. I guess its about giving as much depth as one requires from others that separates things for me.
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) And really, really dislikes atheists.
