Atlanta's national status (Monroe: price, design, oil)
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Indentured Servant read the bottom of the post first, the bold.
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Originally Posted by Indentured Servant
Population Density cannot be calculated without using a FIXED land area in which the people are counted. You first find out how many square miles the an area is then you divide the population by the number of square miles to determine the density per square mile....Right?
I am NOT talking about density because I am NOT using a FIXED land area to make my point!!!! I am arguing POPULATION COUNT! I am arguing that at any arbitrary radius one chooses, there are more people living in the same sized radius around Detroit than exist in that size radius around Atlanta, which would not be true if THERE WERE NOT MORE PEOPLE AROUND DETROIT THAN ATLANTA. You keep saying that I am talking about DENSITY but density is a function of POPULATION.
That 's call density when set a radius you set a FIXED land area.
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What you are arguing is, and I am not arguing against it, is that the MSA methodology defines a larger square mile area for Atlanta than it does for Detroit. I know that and I am not trying to refute that whether its because of commuting patterns or sprawl. All I am saying is that if you take that same square miles and superimpose it over the Detroit area that you would have about a half million or more people living in the same land area than what lives in that same land area in the official "Atlanta MSA" population count.
Again that's call density, "same square miles" is fix land area.
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That does not make any sense....at least not to me. Sorry.
You said the Atlanta school is larger but the Detroit net caught more on the Detroit fishes. That doesn't change that theirs more Atlanta fishes. The Detroit fishes will run out before the Atlanta fishes if there Continue to be caught. And the end more Atlanta fish will be sold.
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There are people who live 50 miles outside of Detroit and there are people that live 50 miles outside of Atlanta. Why and how they got there is splitting hairs. Fine, call it the Detroit-Ann Arbor-Flint-Windsor area....since you seem obsessed with associating the people who live in suburbs and exurbs with some principle city. Hence, the Detroit-Ann Arbor-Flint-Windsor area has more people than the Atlanta-Sandy Springs-Marietta area.
50 miles outside of Detroit is like 80 milies outside Atlanta socially. The communing and interaction are way different. You keep saying you get what I'm saying but your still blowing off what is a suburb and what's not. This is what makes a region. Areas around got to have a relation or else they are just two random places. The Atlanta-Sandy Springs-Marietta area, is the name of MSA of 5.2 million. In which you compared to the CSA of Detroit plus an International metro area that's not even recognized by the UN. To just the MSA of Atlanta because want the same a sq miles "cough cough density". It doesn't work like that, that's Apples to Oranges.
Volume is space, you not asking what per sq mi, but your asking what in 50 sq mi. which is still a set area which means when the population is counted your getting the density of 50 sq mi.
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No I am not. What I am basically saying is that methodology used to count people for government reporting purposes, such as MSA population, are meaningless to the average person who simply seeks access. I mean, tell me.... how are you impacted in what you do on a daily basis, by the boundaries created by the government that serves to define where a metropolitan area stops and starts? How does a person living 50 miles outside of Detroit not have access to all the things that a person has living 50 miles outsidee of Atlanta does? You mean a person cannot drive into Detroit for work, entertainment, culture and play because they don't officially live in the "Detroit MSA", but the person 50 miles outside of Atlanta can because they are "officially" part of the "Atlanta MSA"? I mean, the OPTIONS of someone living 50 miles outside of Detroit are not different than the option of people living 50 miles outsidee of Atlanta. There is nothing that a cities offer that someone living 50 miles outside of Atlanta is granted "Special priveledges" for because they are part of what the goverment calls "The Atlanta MSA". So my point is that there is NO FUNCTIONAL USE, for the average person, for the borders determined by the Office of Management and Budget that determine metropolitan boundaries. Hence, I simply presented an alternate index or metric that simply looked at how many people exist in various radius around a city because driving distance is the number one criteria for the average person in terms of there daily options of places to go to work, places to eat, place to be entertained, places for culture etc....People don't even think about invisible MSA borders. They are meaningless to the average person.
There's the problem with what your saying, I'm glad you bought up the average person. The average person in the Detroit area travels less then the average person in the Atlanta area. The average person in Atlanta would identity a larger area as Atlanta, Then the average person in Detroit as the Detroit area. The government only recognized what people are only doing and actually behaving.
The local government and business react off the census. The local government has to deal with infrastructural and transit issues because sprawl. Business have to market things off the MSA. There aren't "Special priveledges" for any area. Again MSA only reflection reality of growth and how people interact over distance. On the other hand you asking for "Special priveledges" for the Detroit area with little interaction to be consider as Detroit Detroit area.
Wait I just realize something......... Human geography has social factors vs physical geography which is about the physical area. Cities, urban ares, metros and etc are human made. Detroit and Atlanta are Human made. If you bring up population it's going to go into social context. Reality is Atlanta covers more area then Detroit. You might want to search Urban geography.
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LOL....go back and revisit my first two paragraphs of this post.
Are still trying get the population in blank radius? yeah that's call density.
Last edited by chiatldal; 03-08-2012 at 10:32 AM..
Well.....the city of Detroit does have more people than the city of Atlanta.....regardless of what the UN says. There are also more people living in a 25, 50, 75 100..... miles radius around Detroit than around the same sized area around Atlanta. Thats born from looking at raw numbers.....not numbers that are filtered based upon some criteria that serves no useful function for the typical inhabitant of an area. Again, tell me when and how MSA borders impacts your daily life and decisions about where you can go and what you have reasonable access to? When was the last time you heard ANYONE make a decision about where to go based on whether it was within or outside MSA borders? The only thing the average person cares about is HOW FAR IS IT. Distance is the number one factor that people consider when it comes to access and hence counting people based upon a radius count is more inline with what and how the average person would count the population of an area.
A City are political line though there responsibility for that goverment due to it's population. Yes the city of Detroit is bigger. But I was talking Metros you no that. The US, the UN, all ranking Atlanta is bigger than Detroit. Also again that's called density "in blank radius' is density. Every time.
Well that's call urban, suburban and rural life lifestyles yes people choose that. People move in or around a Metro knowing they are in a metro region. Again this what government gets from reality not made up crap. By interaction people are telling the government what is and what's not one region. Human geography involve social contexts, social studies.
The Detroit metropolitan area, often referred to as Metro Detroit, is the metropolitan area located in SoutheastMichigan centered on the city of Detroit. The Detroit metropolitan area is the second largest U.S. metropolitan area linking the Great Lakes system. As a major metropolitan area, it is known for its automotive heritage, arts, and popular music legacies.
At its core, Metro Detroit comprises the counties of Wayne, Oakland, and Macomb. These counties are sometimes referred to informally as the Detroit Tri-County Area and had an estimated population of 3,962,783 as of 2009.
The Detroit Urban Area, which serves as the core of the Metropolitan Statistical Area, ranks as the 9th most populous of the United States, with a population of 3,903,377 as of the 2000 census, and area of 1,261.4 square miles.
The United States Office of Management and Budget defines the Detroit–Warren–Livonia Metropolitan Statistical Area (MSA) as the six counties of Lapeer, Livingston, Macomb, Oakland, St. Clair, and Wayne. As of the 2000 census, the MSA had a population of 4,441,551. The Census Bureau's 2009 estimate placed the population at 4,403,437, which ranks it as the eleventh-largest MSA. The MSA covers an area of 3,913 square miles (Compared to Atlanta's 8,300 Square mile MSA footprint). The nine-county area designated by the United States Census Bureau as the Detroit–Ann Arbor–Flint Combined Statistical Area (CSA) includes the three additional counties of Genesee, Monroe, and Washtenaw, the metropolitan areas of Flint, Ann Arbor, and Monroe, plus the Detroit-Warren-Livonia MSA. It had a population of 5,357,538 as of the 2000 census. The Census Bureau's 2009 estimate placed the population at 5,327,764. This CSA covers an area of 5,814 square miles.Note: The Atlanta MSA is 8,300 Square milesand 5.3 Million people....yet people are arguing that Detroit is NOT in Atlanta's league (15,060 km2). Lenawee County was removed from Detroit's CSA in 2000. With the adjacent city of Windsor, Ontario and its suburbs, the combined Windsor-Detroit area has a population of about 5.7 million (in a total area still smaller than Atlanta's MSA which is over 8,000 sqare miles). When the nearby Toledo Metropolitan Area and its commuters are taken into account, the region constitutes a much larger population center (Metro Toledo is about 700,000 people Thus...6.4 million people in a total area about the size of Atlanta's MSA....which is 5.3 million). An estimated 46 million people live within a 300-mile radius of Detroit proper. Metro Detroit is at the center of the Great Lakes Megalopolis.
The bold, red and black print has been added by me. Thus....regardless of the rankings and the Detroit REGION is far more populated than the Atlanta region. Call it Density or whatever.....thats the facts.
Last edited by Indentured Servant; 03-08-2012 at 12:35 PM..
The Detroit metropolitan area, often referred to as Metro Detroit, is the metropolitan area located in SoutheastMichigan centered on the city of Detroit. The Detroit metropolitan area is the second largest U.S. metropolitan area linking the Great Lakes system. As a major metropolitan area, it is known for its automotive heritage, arts, and popular music legacies.
At its core, Metro Detroit comprises the counties of Wayne, Oakland, and Macomb. These counties are sometimes referred to informally as the Detroit Tri-County Area and had an estimated population of 3,962,783 as of 2009.
The Detroit Urban Area, which serves as the core of the Metropolitan Statistical Area, ranks as the 9th most populous of the United States, with a population of 3,903,377 as of the 2000 census, and area of 1,261.4 square miles.
The United States Office of Management and Budget defines the Detroit–Warren–Livonia Metropolitan Statistical Area (MSA) as the six counties of Lapeer, Livingston, Macomb, Oakland, St. Clair, and Wayne. As of the 2000 census, the MSA had a population of 4,441,551. The Census Bureau's 2009 estimate placed the population at 4,403,437, which ranks it as the eleventh-largest MSA. The MSA covers an area of 3,913 square miles (Compared to Atlanta's 8,300 Square mile MSA footprint). The nine-county area designated by the United States Census Bureau as the Detroit–Ann Arbor–Flint Combined Statistical Area (CSA) includes the three additional counties of Genesee, Monroe, and Washtenaw, the metropolitan areas of Flint, Ann Arbor, and Monroe, plus the Detroit-Warren-Livonia MSA. It had a population of 5,357,538 as of the 2000 census. The Census Bureau's 2009 estimate placed the population at 5,327,764. This CSA covers an area of 5,814 square miles.Note: The Atlanta MSA is 8,300 Square milesand 5.3 Million people....yet people are arguing that Detroit is NOT in Atlanta's league (15,060 km2). Lenawee County was removed from Detroit's CSA in 2000. With the adjacent city of Windsor, Ontario and its suburbs, the combined Windsor-Detroit area has a population of about 5.7 million (in a total area still smaller than Atlanta's MSA which is over 8,000 sqare miles). When the nearby Toledo Metropolitan Area and its commuters are taken into account, the region constitutes a much larger population center (Metro Toledo is about 700,000 people Thus...6.4 million people in a total area about the size of Atlanta's MSA....which is 5.3 million). An estimated 46 million people live within a 300-mile radius of Detroit proper. Metro Detroit is at the center of the Great Lakes Megalopolis.
The bold, red and black print has been added by me. Thus....regardless of the rankings and the Detroit REGION is far more populated than the Atlanta region. Call it Density or whatever.....thats the facts.
And? I've just read through multiple pages of this, and still have no idea what your point is. I tend to agree with others here that say you are hell-bent on "teaching them a lesson" for some ridiculous reason - but we are used to it, sadly.
Oh - and just so you know, Atlanta is leagues above Detroit in every possible way, with the exception of automobile manufacturing. Period.
People in extremely urban cities like D.C. proper and Baltimore city proper don't have a desire to leave the central city because the suburbs don't offer even a small percentage of the amenities and entertainment in the city proper. This dynamic exists in Manhattan, Boston, and San Francisco city proper also. The only time you will find people in a city like D.C. traveling to the suburbs would be for outdoor excursions like the beach or mountains. They also would leave if they are visiting friends and family, but other than that, they have no reason to go to the suburbs.
Absolutely and totally not true, and actually extremely misleading when it comes to D.C. in particular. With the exception of inner-ring suburb Chevy Chase, the residents of the District are forced to go to the suburbs for A LOT - including upscale shopping and multitudes of ethnic dining. Same applies to Baltimore, on an even greater scale actually. D.C. and Baltimore are NOT in the same league as the other cities you mention, but Atlanta IS - especially when it comes to upscale shopping. Here, the suburbanites come into the City for that sort of thing.
Atlanta is barely the 40th most populated city in the U.S. Everyone referring to its "metropolitan areas" is neglecting to mention the fact that metro Atlanta tries to lay claim to 5 states (tenn, sc, nc, alabama, ga), which is not a reflection of reality. It's wishful thinking to consider Atlanta as a top tier city, and it's just as false to reference a made-up metro area that encompasses almost the entire south. Atlanta is on the same level as a city like Omaha, Nebraska or Colorado Springs.
Of all the many RIDICULOUS statements I've seen posted on C-D, this has to take the cake! (I wonder if some people just make up names and come on C-D to antagonize others)?
Atlanta. like any other large city with a national significance, has urban problems. But, Atlanta is most definately a great city by American standards and certainly carries a good deal of national clout. If this poster "thinks otherwise" he/she is delusional. And no, I'm not from there.
Of all the many RIDICULOUS statements I've seen posted on C-D, this has to take the cake! (I wonder if some people just make up names and come on C-D to antagonize others)?
BINGO!
Atlanta - for whatever reason - seems to attract a LOT of these types.
And? I've just read through multiple pages of this, and still have no idea what your point is. I tend to agree with others here that say you are hell-bent on "teaching them a lesson" for some ridiculous reason - but we are used to it, sadly.
Oh - and just so you know, Atlanta is leagues above Detroit in every possible way, with the exception of automobile manufacturing. Period.
Well....I would hope so considering that the Detroit area has been in an economic depression for the last decade and had lost over a half a million jobs.
If you have read through mutliple pages of this and do not know what my point is.....then you either do not want to know or are not intelligent enough to know.
When I first started commenting on this I used the example of Unemployment rates as an anology. The government says that the unemployment rate is 8.3% for the nation. The FACTS are that it is really higher than that, but the FORMULA used to count the unemployed leaves out many people who are unemployed. In other words, the way the government chooses to count the unemployed has holes in it and those holes mask the truth. Who would take offense to learning the truth and speaking the truth but those who have a vested interest in half truths? Why do people take offense when I point out the holes in how the government officially counts people for MSA populations? Just because the government defines something a certain way does not mean that its accurate. All I have done is point out that when one ignores commuting patterns and such that it creates a different count for areas. I am sorry that ticks so many of you off but its just the truth. Go have a Coke and chill.
Atlanta is the most self important area in America....thats for sure. In all honesty....the only thing I think of when I think of Atlanta is rappers. That might be my own ignorance.....but its what stands out to me.
Last edited by Indentured Servant; 03-08-2012 at 01:51 PM..
Well....I would hope so considering that the Detroit area has been in an economic depression for the last decade and had lost over a half a million jobs.
If you have read through mutliple pages of this and do not know what my point is.....then you either do not want to know or are not intelligent enough to know.
When I first started commenting on this I used the example of Unemployment rates as an anology. The government says that the unemployment rate is 8.3% for the nation. The FACTS are that it is really higher than that, but the FORMULA used to count the unemployed leaves out many people who are unemployed. In other words, the way the government chooses to count the unemployed has holes in it and those holes mask the truth. Who would take offense to learning the truth and speaking the truth but those who have a vested interest in half truths? Why do people take offense when I point out the holes in how the government officially counts people for MSA populations? Just because the government defines something a certain way does not mean that its accurate. All I have done is point out that when one ignores commuting patterns and such that it creates a different count for areas. I am sorry that ticks so many of you off but its just the truth. Go have a Coke and chill.
Atlanta is the most self important area in America....thats for sure. In all honesty....the only thing I think of when I think of Atlanta is rappers. That might be my own ignorance.....but its what stands out to me.
Jeeze dude, are you done? Get a life and enjoy whatever city you live in.
The Detroit metropolitan area, often referred to as Metro Detroit, is the metropolitan area located in SoutheastMichigan centered on the city of Detroit. The Detroit metropolitan area is the second largest U.S. metropolitan area linking the Great Lakes system. As a major metropolitan area, it is known for its automotive heritage, arts, and popular music legacies.
At its core, Metro Detroit comprises the counties of Wayne, Oakland, and Macomb. These counties are sometimes referred to informally as the Detroit Tri-County Area and had an estimated population of 3,962,783 as of 2009.
The Detroit Urban Area, which serves as the core of the Metropolitan Statistical Area, ranks as the 9th most populous of the United States, with a population of 3,903,377 as of the 2000 census, and area of 1,261.4 square miles.
The United States Office of Management and Budget defines the Detroit–Warren–Livonia Metropolitan Statistical Area (MSA) as the six counties of Lapeer, Livingston, Macomb, Oakland, St. Clair, and Wayne. As of the 2000 census, the MSA had a population of 4,441,551. The Census Bureau's 2009 estimate placed the population at 4,403,437, which ranks it as the eleventh-largest MSA. The MSA covers an area of 3,913 square miles (Compared to Atlanta's 8,300 Square mile MSA footprint). The nine-county area designated by the United States Census Bureau as the Detroit–Ann Arbor–Flint Combined Statistical Area (CSA) includes the three additional counties of Genesee, Monroe, and Washtenaw, the metropolitan areas of Flint, Ann Arbor, and Monroe, plus the Detroit-Warren-Livonia MSA. It had a population of 5,357,538 as of the 2000 census. The Census Bureau's 2009 estimate placed the population at 5,327,764. This CSA covers an area of 5,814 square miles.Note: The Atlanta MSA is 8,300 Square milesand 5.3 Million people....yet people are arguing that Detroit is NOT in Atlanta's league (15,060 km2). Lenawee County was removed from Detroit's CSA in 2000. With the adjacent city of Windsor, Ontario and its suburbs, the combined Windsor-Detroit area has a population of about 5.7 million (in a total area still smaller than Atlanta's MSA which is over 8,000 sqare miles). When the nearby Toledo Metropolitan Area and its commuters are taken into account, the region constitutes a much larger population center (Metro Toledo is about 700,000 people Thus...6.4 million people in a total area about the size of Atlanta's MSA....which is 5.3 million). An estimated 46 million people live within a 300-mile radius of Detroit proper. Metro Detroit is at the center of the Great Lakes Megalopolis.
The bold, red and black print has been added by me. Thus....regardless of the rankings and the Detroit REGION is far more populated than the Atlanta region. Call it Density or whatever.....thats the facts.
And I'm the one who's super-sensitive?
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