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By this reasoning Charlotte is slightly bigger than D.C and Jacksonville is bigger than Boston. Like one poster mentioned already the whole metro is branded by Atlanta. Places like college park, decatur and norcross have plenty of companies with Atlanta in the title.plenty of commuters flood the city for work(increasing daytime population.). I think it is obvious that Atlanta is in deep causal relationship with Its immediate surrounding. I've heard people refuse to move to Atlanta because it is "too big", im not sure Omaha has the same problem.
Or better yet, Jacksonville is bigger than Miami. I can't even count how many times I've had to stress the importance of MSA population over city limits in this forum. Atlanta just happens to be a city where most people work in during the day, but live in the suburban areas.
Indentured Servant,
Without the commuting patterns to add areas to an MSA the areas cannot be identified as part of that cities region. Your radius' at different points may allow for higher populations, but without them commuting to the areas of Detroit they are not associated with Detroit. That is why you are fighting a lost cause here those areas we're not members of the Detroit area no matter how much you skew things. All of these areas near Atlanta have huge percentages of people that commute to Atlanta. The fact that there are slightly more people in Michigan does not make Detroit bigger.
Indentured Servant,
Without the commuting patterns to add areas to an MSA the areas cannot be identified as part of that cities region. Your radius' at different points may allow for higher populations, but without them commuting to the areas of Detroit they are not associated with Detroit. That is why you are fighting a lost cause here those areas we're not members of the Detroit area no matter how much you skew things. All of these areas near Atlanta have huge percentages of people that commute to Atlanta. The fact that there are slightly more people in Michigan does not make Detroit bigger.
And I respect that. Really I do. People seem to think that I am lost on that FACT, when I am not. Think of my point this way. Ignore names of places, for the moment. Now, just think in terms of population clusters. What I am saying is that there is a more populated population cluster centered around the geographic latitude-longitude 42.42 83.02 than there is centered at the geographic latitude-longitude of 33.65 84.42. That is clearly visible in this picture someone posted in this topic.
Whether all those bright lights clustered together are in one single metro area or multiple metro areas in collision does not change the fact that they represent larger population clusters. When one lives in an area they have access to shopping, jobs, entertainment, colleges, recreation unbounded by "official" MSA borders. Someone living in the Northern suburbs of Toledo are not prevented from enjoying any of the offerings of Detroit. That person has as much access to the trappings that eminates from an area of well over 5 million people, than does a person living in metro Atlatna. Whatever 5 million plus people in an area provides you.....one can benefit from it or be cursed by it at latitude-longitude of 42.42 83.02, as much as, if not more than a person at latitude-longitude 33.65 84.42.
And I respect that. Really I do. People seem to think that I am lost on that FACT, when I am not. Think of my point this way. Ignore names of places, for the moment. Now, just think in terms of population clusters. What I am saying is that there is a more populated population cluster centered around the geographic latitude-longitude 42.42 83.02 than there is centered at the geographic latitude-longitude of 33.65 84.42. That is clearly visible in this picture someone posted in this topic.
Whether all those bright lights clustered together are in one single metro area or multiple metro areas in collision does not change the fact that they represent larger population clusters. When one lives in an area they have access to shopping, jobs, entertainment, colleges, recreation unbounded by "official" MSA borders. Someone living in the Northern suburbs of Toledo are not prevented from enjoying any of the offerings of Detroit. That person has as much access to the trappings that eminates from an area of well over 5 million people, than does a person living in metro Atlatna. Whatever 5 million plus people in an area provides you.....one can benefit from it or be cursed by it at latitude-longitude of 42.42 83.02, as much as, if not more than a person at latitude-longitude 33.65 84.42.
yes, however neither are those people from Augusta, Birmingham, Macon, Columbus or Chattanooga. However it doesn't make them part of our metro nor does it make Toledo part of yours even though they are in easy driving distance. I used to drive to and from Macon and Crisp everyday, but they aren't part of Atlanta's area just the same as those in Toledo are not part of Detroit's metro area. I am not saying there are less people around Detroit, what I'm saying is they are not associated with Detroit. That is a beautiful map though isn't it?
And I respect that. Really I do. People seem to think that I am lost on that FACT, when I am not. Think of my point this way. Ignore names of places, for the moment. Now, just think in terms of population clusters. What I am saying is that there is a more populated population cluster centered around the geographic latitude-longitude 42.42 83.02 than there is centered at the geographic latitude-longitude of 33.65 84.42. That is clearly visible in this picture someone posted in this topic.
Whether all those bright lights clustered together are in one single metro area or multiple metro areas in collision does not change the fact that they represent larger population clusters. When one lives in an area they have access to shopping, jobs, entertainment, colleges, recreation unbounded by "official" MSA borders. Someone living in the Northern suburbs of Toledo are not prevented from enjoying any of the offerings of Detroit. That person has as much access to the trappings that eminates from an area of well over 5 million people, than does a person living in metro Atlatna. Whatever 5 million plus people in an area provides you.....one can benefit from it or be cursed by it at latitude-longitude of 42.42 83.02, as much as, if not more than a person at latitude-longitude 33.65 84.42.
Why the emphasis on population though? Ya it's a factor but not the end all be all. The economic situation is more important.
yes, however neither are those people from Augusta, Birmingham, Macon, Columbus or Chattanooga. However it doesn't make them part of our metro nor does it make Toledo part of yours even though they are in easy driving distance. I used to drive to and from Macon and Crisp everyday, but they aren't part of Atlanta's area just the same as those in Toledo are not part of Detroit's metro area. I am not saying there are less people around Detroit, what I'm saying is they are not associated with Detroit. That is a beautiful map though isn't it?
Ahhh.....my point has NEVER been that they should be considered part of the Detroit MSA. In other words, my point has never been who the people should be associated with, but rahter, getting a pure count of people that exist in a comparable land area.
Can somone list the tangible benefits of 5 million plus people in an area and then tell me how somone living in the Detriot area does not have the same benefits.
That said, you can leave Toledo out of it. THere are still 5.7 million people even without Toledo, in an area less than the size of Metro Atlanta, but with 400,000 more people than metro Atlanta. You can expand atlanta metro out to columbus or whever....but in expanding the Detroit area out equal distance will still add up to more people.
Why the emphasis on population though? Ya it's a factor but not the end all be all. The economic situation is more important.
Thats a very valid point. Which is why Detroit is minus this one person...lol. I needed opportunity. However, Atlanta has nothing to brag about in regards to jobs these days. The Atlanta area of Today is certainly not the same Atlanta prior to the recession.
Again you are trying to say ONLY ONE METRIC matters. You started your last post by saying that statistics are realities and facts. Well, the FACTS are the Omana and Atlanta's population are pretty comparable......but then you want to introduce tall buildings and show picutures of how Atlanta skyline is so much bigger than Omaha's. Why do you get to introduce other factors not revealed by statistics but when I try to introduce other factors not revealed by statistics you reject them?
I have been kind of a demographics and economics nerd for over 20 years. I am in my 40's now. Let me put it like this: If an English major was to read our post........they could not be silent and see the damage that we do to the English language.....lol. They will speak up and point out all the grammatical flaws in our posts. Well....that is the way I am about demographics and economics. When I see people hyping Altanta and see the numbers for Atlanta's population......I do not see the numbers as putting Atlanta in the top 10 population areas of the country. I just don't....at least not YET....but if trends continue as in the past....it will be. Areas that exist in Mega-reagions or megaoplises are in a league of their own......because those areas all bump into one another. Altlanta is not in a mega-region....
By the way....that IS an impressive view of the ATL skyline. I always liked the ATL skyline. Houston has a nice panoramic as well.
No I'm not......... I'm telling you what your looking for is not reflective in Human geography. Everything in Human geography involves social factors. You can't separate that. Atlanta and Detroit are regions defined by Human geography 'that's all they are" not Physical geography.
Atlanta sits a lower end of the Piedmont region. I don't know what's the physical region of Detroit is call but I guess the Lower southeast end of the Peninsula of Michigan. However you can not mention Atlanta or the Detroit region, again because those are urban areas which are apart of Human geography which again has to have social factors.
Urban areas are more focus on land development the US has 1K sq mi threshold. The Atlanta urban area is also more sprawl and populated then Detroit by US to UN. Earlier you gave stats for 2000 when Atlanta was 3,5 million. By urban area now Atlanta is over 4.1 million. Detroit was 3,903,377 in 2000 and it decrease since then.
Another thing hyping Atlanta would be putting Atlanta above it's ranking not at it. So if some one say Atlanta is the 9th largest metro that's not hyping Atlanta.)
Ahhh.....my point has NEVER been that they should be considered part of the Detroit MSA. In other words, my point has never been who the people should be associated with, but rahter, getting a pure count of people that exist in a comparable land area.
Can somone list the tangible benefits of 5 million plus people in an area and then tell me how somone living in the Detriot area does not have the same benefits.
That said, you can leave Toledo out of it. THere are still 5.7 million people even without Toledo, in an area less than the size of Metro Atlanta, but with 400,000 more people than metro Atlanta. You can expand atlanta metro out to columbus or whever....but in expanding the Detroit area out equal distance will still add up to more people.
Yes,I understand this and apparently by the measurements the areas around Detroit are more independent and are not driven by the presence of Detroit in the way that the areas around Atlanta are. That is what an MSA is it shows the number of people that are immediately affected by a city and how far that area is nothing more. A majority of the time those individual cities are so intertwined with that city to a level that it identifies itself as a part of that city. I understood your original point, and that there is a larger urban cluster around Detroit, but the MSA's measure that more people and a larger area are affected by Atlanta. Here let me give an example: San Francisco, San Jose, and Oakland are all part of one region, but the people in Oakland don't say their from San Francisco due to the lack of reliance on the city of San Francisco. Once again I know and understand that the radius' around Detroit contain more people. All an MSA shows is an immediately affected area and population.
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