MARTA eyeing major expansion up Georgia 400 corridor (Atlanta, Clayton: apartment, Home Depot)

[Born 2 Roll]

Originally Posted by Born 2 Roll

The bad aftertaste and resulting political fallout from the completion of GA 400 through one of the region's most highly-desired residential areas (in Buckhead and North Atlanta) also very-likely played a major role in tanking public opinion on large-scale road construction projects and bringing about the eventual cancellation of the Outer Perimeter and Northern Arc road construction projects.

Originally Posted by cqholt

Part of the agreement was to add transit in the freeway project.

Adding transit was how pro-GA 400 extension interests were able to get the anti-roadbuilding pro-transit Intown interests to go along with a road construction project that those anti-roadbuilding Intown interests otherwise would have despised and likely would have been infinitely much more obstructionist towards.

Without the addition of the heavy rail line to the median of the highway, the construction of the controversial GA 400 Extension likely would have been much more difficult (but not necessarily totally-impossible) to complete in a political environment that even at that time had started to turn sharply against large-scale road construction projects.

Originally Posted by arjay57

I'm not sure GA 400 would have been any more destructive south of I-85 than it was on the northside.

Because of the high density of population and development (particularly residential development) of the area below I-85, the construction of I-485/I-675/GA 400 would have been extremely-destructive, not only to the neighborhoods of Intown East Atlanta themselves, but also to the social and cultural fabric of the entire city of Atlanta.

Intown East Atlanta neighborhoods in the path of proposed freeways like Morningside-Lenox Park and Virginia Highland have since gone on to become some of the most-popular and highly-regarded Intown residential areas in the entire city after the cancellation of the Stone Mountain Freeway.

Originally Posted by arjay57

Buckhead neighborhoods found themselves up against both downtown and OTP interests who wanted to open up another expressway through the city, as well as MARTA, which wanted to construct a north line. Complicated politics, since most of the downtown movers and shakers were also Buckheadians themselves. There are still some old wounds there.

This is an excellent point.

In addition to being up against both Downtown and OTP interests, Buckhead residential neighborhoods were also up against powerful real estate interests who wanted the GA 400 Extension as a means of even more quickly increasing the value of Buckhead commercial real estate which was already on the rise.

At its base, the GA 400 Extension was nothing more than a scheme to much more-quickly increase the value of commercial real estate in the Buckhead and Perimeter/Dunwoody areas which was already rising in value.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by Born 2 Roll

Intown East Atlanta neighborhoods in the path of proposed freeways like Morningside-Lenox Park and Virginia Highland have since gone on to become some of the most-popular and highly-regarded Intown residential areas in the entire city after the cancellation of the Stone Mountain Freeway.

No doubt about it. However, while those neighborhoods were definitely up and coming they were not the ultra-gentried enclaves they are today. We lived there at the time and white flight was still in full swing. A number of our friends who were settling in the posh new suburbs were aghast that we would risk buying a home and raising our children in what they regarded as a "risky" area.

So while it's hard to imagine ramming a freeway through Morningside, Buckhead or Virginia-Highland today, it was very touch and go in the 1960s and 70s.

For one thing, neighborhoods had not completely figured out how to organize yet. Additionally, a lot of people felt that new freeways were the inexorable march of progress. So in their minds, it was no big deal to knock down a few blocks of funny-looking old houses in what many perceived as slightly "rough" sections. After all, they'd been built 30 or 40 years earlier and were often getting frazzled around the edges.

I'm glad for the neighborhoods that were spared freeway construction. Nonetheless, history demonstrates that strong communities can recover and knit themselves back together -- even around a 10 lane super slab.

[bryantm3]

Originally Posted by arjay57

No doubt about it. However, while those neighborhoods were definitely up and coming they were not the ultra-gentried enclaves they are today. We lived there at the time and white flight was still in full swing. A number of our friends who were settling in the posh new suburbs were aghast that we would risk buying a home and raising our children in what they regarded as a "risky" area.

So while it's hard to imagine ramming a freeway through Morningside, Buckhead or Virginia-Highland today, it was very touch and go in the 1960s and 70s.

For one thing, neighborhoods had not completely figured out how to organize yet. Additionally, a lot of people felt that new freeways were the inexorable march of progress. So in their minds, it was no big deal to knock down a few blocks of funny-looking old houses in what many perceived as slightly "rough" sections. After all, they'd been built 30 or 40 years earlier and were often getting frazzled around the edges.

I'm glad for the neighborhoods that were spared freeway construction. Nonetheless, history demonstrates that strong communities can recover and knit themselves back together -- even around a 10 lane super slab.

knowing where the freeways were to go, i think the damage would have been almost irreversible. i'd take you on a tour and show you where I-485 was to go... i don't think there's any way the neighbourhoods would have recovered. they simply would've been demolished.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by bryantm3

knowing where the freeways were to go, i think the damage would have been almost irreversible. i'd take you on a tour and show you where I-485 was to go... i don't think there's any way the neighbourhoods would have recovered. they simply would've been demolished.

I'm thoroughly familiar with the plans and lived in the neighborhood at the time. The neighborhoods would have taken a hit but I believe they would have come back. Look at the way the Buckhead neighborhoods rebounded from 400 and I-75. Grant Park and Glenwood have done a pretty good job of gobbling up I-20, and there are many fine neighborhoods along other freeways throughout metro Atlanta.

[0nyxStation]

Yes yes y'all.

[arjay57]

Other good examples of the way older intown neighborhoods have handled freeways are Sherwood Forest, Brookwood Hills, Ardmore, Channing Valley, Underwood Hills and Piedmont Heights. There are many others.

I'm not saying freeways (and heavy rail lines) aren't a mess and I don't want to see anymore of them in the city limits unless there is a careful assessment of their impact.

My point is simply that they are not as devastating as is sometimes claimed. Strong neighborhoods are amazingly resilient and they fairly quickly knit themselves back around all sorts of disruptions. That's because people want to live there.

[Born 2 Roll]

Originally Posted by arjay57

Other good examples of the way older intown neighborhoods have handled freeways are Sherwood Forest, Brookwood Hills, Ardmore, Channing Valley, Underwood Hills and Piedmont Heights. There are many others.

Those are good examples of older Intown neighborhoods that have been resilient and that have recovered well after being heavily-impacted by freeway construction.

Originally Posted by arjay57

I'm not saying freeways (and heavy rail lines) aren't a mess and I don't want to see anymore of them in the city limits unless there is a careful assessment of their impact.

With public opinion having turned and continuing to turn sharply against new freeway construction through already-developed areas (particularly through urban and Intown areas), it is highly-unlikely that we will ever see anymore new freeways constructed inside of the I-285 Perimeter, even if they are buried underground.

Heck, we seem to be entering an era where a growing number of cities either want to tear down and/or bury existing freeways underground so that the surface land area that many urban freeways now occupy can be reclaimed as greenspace and/or high-density real estate development.

Originally Posted by arjay57

My point is simply that they are not as devastating as is sometimes claimed. Strong neighborhoods are amazingly resilient and they fairly quickly knit themselves back around all sorts of disruptions. That's because people want to live there.

That is an excellent point that strong neighborhoods are resilient and can knit themselves back together after something as highly-impactful as being split in half or isolated from other nearby areas due to the construction of a freeway through their areas.

But many of those areas that were directly and heavily-impacted by freeway construction struggled after large and very-significant chunks of their neighborhoods were leveled before recovering.

Heck, some very-successful Intown neighborhoods that did not have freeways constructed through them also struggled in the 1960's-1980's era of middle-class flight to the suburbs.

That means that neighborhoods that were heavily-impacted by freeway construction struggled that much more before coming back to be desirable Intown addresses in the last 2 decades or so.

Meanwhile, some areas (like, for example, large chunks of Summerhill, Peoplestown and Mechanicsville as has been discussed on some of the Braves' leaving Turner Field threads) never really have truly recovered from having very-large and significant chunks of their neighborhoods taken for freeway construction.

It is a great point that many urban neighborhoods can and have comeback from having large chunks of existing development leveled for the construction of multi-lane freeways.

But many urban neighborhoods also struggle mightily just to continue to exist and function after being largely-leveled for freeway construction.

It is infinitely-better if urban neighborhoods can become more livable and appealing to middle-class families without much of the existing development in the neighborhood having been taken and leveled for the construction of a busy freeway that is obviously not the most-appealing to live near because of the noise and pollution concerns.

Urban and Intown neighborhoods can comeback from freeway construction, but ideally, no urban or Intown neighborhood should necessarily have to comeback being severly negatively-impacted by freeway construction (by being half-leveled and having a busy (and noisy and polluting) multi-lane freeway run next to or directly through it).

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by Born 2 Roll

That is an excellent point that strong neighborhoods are resilient and can knit themselves back together after something as highly-impactful as being split in half or isolated from other nearby areas due to the construction of a freeway through their areas.

But many of those areas that were directly and heavily-impacted by freeway construction struggled after large and very-significant chunks of their neighborhoods were leveled before recovering.

Heck, some very-successful Intown neighborhoods that did not have freeways constructed through them also struggled in the 1960's-1980's era of middle-class flight to the suburbs.

Well said as always, B2R.

Yes, the areas most at risk are the ones which are fragile to begin with.

That's why I don't think GA400 would have devastated the east side. Those neighborhoods sagged a little during the late 1950s-early 70s when the city was going through so much turmoil, but they never collapsed.

Again, I'm glad GA400 and the Stone Mountain freeway were not extended. We lived there at the time and vigorously opposed them. I'm just noting that it overstates the case to assert that they would have destroyed Morningside and Virginia-Highland.

[0nyxStation]

Its good Marta is talking this up again, its also great to see the trolly tracks layed on Edgewood.

[cqholt]

Big Park, MARTA Extension On Tap For CP - Real Estate Bisnow (ATL)