Religious Freedom Bill Does not Survive House Judiciary (2013, chapel)

[J2rescue]

Originally Posted by Fubarbundy

Doesn't the constitution already equally guarantee both freedom of, and from, religion?

As a law abiding citizen, I pray that never changes (this isn't Saudi Arabia, no offense).

If the bill does include provisions that disallow discrimination or protect abusers, then it's basically symbolic and at the end of the day every dog had their say.

Clearly you haven't been paying much attention to politics if you think the constitution matters in this country anymore.

[bUU]

Originally Posted by Fubarbundy

Doesn't the constitution already equally guarantee both freedom of, and from, religion?

The latter is not exactly what is guaranteed. Rather, what is guaranteed is that whatever insinuation of religion there may be must be afforded to all religions equally, rather than to some religions in heavier measure than others. Operationally, that does tend to require freedom from religion, because it is typically impracticable to afford and guarantee all religions equal standing wherever any religion presumes to insinuate itself.

[bUU]

Originally Posted by J2rescue

You are quite mistaken. Christianity is not based on touchy-feely ideas but on the word of God contained in the Bible. People of faith (not just Christians) are being threatened with jail for not participating in activities that are against their beliefs. This is simply wrong.

If someone's belief rationalizes killing a person who they don't think is pretty, would that be justified in your mind? Of course not. Beliefs deserve consideration and protection, but everyone's beliefs deserve consideration and protection, not just those you like, and everyone's beliefs deserve consideration and protection equally. Where beliefs conflict, as in this case, basic, universal morality (i.e., the ethic of reciprocity) dictates that people must treat others as they would have others treat them if every aspect of the circumstances were reversed.

We are a society of laws. Freedom of religion guarantees you the right to live in accordance with your beliefs within your own skin, within your own family, and within your own worship and guarantees everyone else the right to live in accordance with their beliefs within their own skin, within their own family, and within their own worship. Once someone enters the public arena, one's own religious beliefs do not prevail.

Furthermore, tyranny of the majority doesn't justify imposing the religious beliefs of one group on everyone. Referring back to the application of the most universal ethic in the history of humanity, the ethic of reciprocity, morality dictates that a member of the majority perspective must behave toward a member of a minority perspective who seeks the service they offer to the public as they would wish to be treated if they were a member of a minority perspective being served by a member of the majority perspective. This is basic morality, using a tenet that the Christian religion didn't originate but did explicitly ratify through the words and deeds of its religious paragons.

People have no right to hide their practice of bigotry and hate behind their beliefs. Instead, in the public arena, everyone is to be treated by everyone fairly and justly, and when someone chooses to treat someone else differently from others then they should suffer consequences for presuming to place themselves over, instead of alongside, others.

[J2rescue]

Originally Posted by bUU

If someone's belief rationalizes killing a person who they don't think is pretty, would that be justified in your mind? Of course not. Beliefs deserve consideration and protection, but everyone's beliefs deserve consideration and protection, not just those you like, and everyone's beliefs deserve consideration and protection equally. Where beliefs conflict, as in this case, basic, universal morality (i.e., the ethic of reciprocity) dictates that people must treat others as they would have others treat them if every aspect of the circumstances were reversed.

We are a society of laws. Freedom of religion guarantees you the right to live in accordance with your beliefs within your own skin, within your own family, and within your own worship and guarantees everyone else the right to live in accordance with their beliefs within their own skin, within their own family, and within their own worship. Once someone enters the public arena, one's own religious beliefs do not prevail.

Furthermore, tyranny of the majority doesn't justify imposing the religious beliefs of one group on everyone. Referring back to the application of the most universal ethic in the history of humanity, the ethic of reciprocity, morality dictates that a member of the majority perspective must behave toward a member of a minority perspective who seeks the service they offer to the public as they would wish to be treated if they were a member of a minority perspective being served by a member of the majority perspective. This is basic morality, using a tenet that the Christian religion didn't originate but did explicitly ratify through the words and deeds of its religious paragons.

People have no right to hide their practice of bigotry and hate behind their beliefs. Instead, in the public arena, everyone is to be treated by everyone fairly and justly, and when someone chooses to treat someone else differently from others then they should suffer consequences for presuming to place themselves over, instead of alongside, others.

Something, something, something ...bigotry and hate. To disagree with someone is now hate. Got it.

In your example, the person who kills someone for not being pretty would clearly be imposing their beliefs on someone else. It's a very poor example of what is happening as it relates to gay marriage except that the beliefs of those on one side of the issue is being imposed on those on the other side.

[AnsleyPark]

Originally Posted by J2rescue

You are quite mistaken. Christianity is not based on touchy-feely ideas but on the word of God contained in the Bible. People of faith (not just Christians) are being threatened with jail for not participating in activities that are against their beliefs. This is simply wrong.

Love thy neighbor as thyself. The word of God.

[atltechdude]

Originally Posted by J2rescue

Something, something, something ...bigotry and hate. To disagree with someone is now hate. Got it.

In your example, the person who kills someone for not being pretty would clearly be imposing their beliefs on someone else. It's a very poor example of what is happening as it relates to gay marriage except that the beliefs of those on one side of the issue is being imposed on those on the other side.

Your post is absurd. Nothing is being imposed on you. If you are not for same sex marriage, don't marry someone of the same sex. Your position is as absurd as saying that civil rights were imposed on white supremacists. Your intolerance is backward and is quickly dying out in this country.

[J2rescue]

Originally Posted by AnsleyPark

Love thy neighbor as thyself. The word of God.

Yet loving someone does not equal agreeing with everything that person does.

In the word of God, those words were preceded in the Bible by this...to Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind.

[AnsleyPark]

Originally Posted by J2rescue

Yet loving someone does not equal agreeing with everything that person does.

In the word of God, those words were preceded in the Bible by this...to Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind.

Ahm, but it doesn't say that discriminating is the same thing as loving God. Jesus loved everyone.

[J2rescue]

Originally Posted by atltechdude

Your post is absurd. Nothing is being imposed on you. If you are not for same sex marriage, don't marry someone of the same sex. Your position is as absurd as saying that civil rights were imposed on white supremacists. Your intolerance is backward and is quickly dying out in this country.

Tell that these people.

Idaho city’s ordinance tells pastors to marry gays or go to jail

BAKER FACES PRISON FOR REFUSING TO BAKE SAME-SEX WEDDING CAKE

[Fubarbundy]

Originally Posted by bUU

The latter is not exactly what is guaranteed. Rather, what is guaranteed is that whatever insinuation of religion there may be must be afforded to all religions equally, rather than to some religions in heavier measure than others. Operationally, that does tend to require freedom from religion, because it is typically impracticable to afford and guarantee all religions equal standing wherever any religion presumes to insinuate itself.

Thank you for drawing that with distinction.

By the way, I like your username. It reminds me of a large woman carrying a purse (not to be too graphic).

Originally Posted by J2rescue

Clearly you haven't been paying much attention to politics if you think the constitution matters in this country anymore.

Thank you for noticing.

Politics to some is an acquired taste, like durian or chitterlings. I'm very glad and grateful to those who make sure that it's done right, if not actually enjoy it.