Texas trip has Fulton leader excited for transit (Atlanta, Dallas: apartments, condos)

[fourthwarden]

Originally Posted by Gulch

Millar is being obtuse here, but MARTA needs to also make that formal plan clear and public sooner rather than later. Don't wait on the General Assembly to get its act together.

MARTA's is still playing catch-up, at least in the public outreach sense, and you're right that they need to have a more clear, overall proposal.

That said, as a representative, especially one touting representation over democratic action, such a thing should be less important. As long as MARTA shows that they have a plan, which they do, shouldn't that be enough? Why does it need to be wrapped up in a pretty bow for representatives to agree on it?

[cqholt]

Habits could be changing...

A survey of metro Atlanta commuters indicates rising interest in public transportation.
It also reveals there are many drivers in the metro area who are devoted to their cars.
The survey was conducted by HNTB, a company that advises cities on transportation planning.
According to the responses of those surveyed, 84-percent of metro-Atlanta say want to live closer to public transit stations. That's a 31-percent increase over the number of people questioned 5 years ago.

Commuter Dude: Rising interest in living near public transit in metro Atlanta | 11alive.com

[AnsleyPark]

Originally Posted by 80s_kid

They went to Texas to get some transit ideas? They could have went to NJ, NoVa, Chicago, or even the Philadelphia area. That's like going to the Dominican Republic & Cuba to scout great soccer players then heading to Brazil and Argentina to find elite baseball talent.

Looks to me like Dallas is a great place to see rail transit at work: DART.org - Facts about Dallas Area Rapid Transit (DART)

[fourthwarden]

Originally Posted by AnsleyPark

Looks to me like Dallas is a great place to see rail transit at work: DART.org - Facts about Dallas Area Rapid Transit (DART)

Except that it has significantly lower ridership than MARTA rail, has significantly lower ridership per mile than MARTA rail, and is slower than MARTA rail.

[AnsleyPark]

Originally Posted by fourthwarden

Except that it has significantly lower ridership than MARTA rail, has significantly lower ridership per mile than MARTA rail, and is slower than MARTA rail.

Understood; however, it certainly is more expansive than MARTA rail, regardless of whether the good folks in Texas embrace it.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by primaltech

I wonder if this means they're talking about extending the heavy rail south of Airport station, presumably along I-85.

That would give park&ride commuters on the southside a single-seat ride to the airport and to jobs in Downtown/Midtown/Buckhead/Perimeter/eventually Alpharetta. As well as allow building economy-boosting TOD along with the stations.

If there was heavy rail out to Fairburn, that would certainly make living in Peachtree City and Fayetteville a lot more attractive and connected to everything.

Then they could also do a BRT system on Camp Creek Pkwy and S Fulton Pkwy.

With MARTA stopping at the airport, it really doesn't serve the south metro.

The Clayton line will service I-75, although until it goes all the way to town (or if it is MARTA heavy rail instead of the intended commuter rail), it won't serve it well. Extending the line to the southwest to I-85 would serve those areas along I-85. It makes sense in the long run.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by AnsleyPark

Understood; however, it certainly is more expansive than MARTA rail, regardless of whether the good folks in Texas embrace it.

And they got about 20 different cities to vote to join.

[primaltech]

As much as I'm down with the idea of commuter rail, I think the best kind of transit is always going to be the kind that requires the fewest number of transfers. A single seat ride to Atlanta's job centers on the Red Line would make all the difference for people on the south side, and would justify the cost of extending the heavy rail vs building other types of rail.

Also, because you have 2 lines serving the Airport Station, Red and Gold, you could potentially have each go in a different direction. One could head out a few stops on S Fulton Pkwy, one could parallel I-85 for a few stops.

Or, MARTA could plan long term for the Gold Line to go to Riverdale, since Riverdale doesn't have a rail corridor and would be left out of the main Clayton line.

[fourthwarden]

Originally Posted by AnsleyPark

Understood; however, it certainly is more expansive than MARTA rail, regardless of whether the good folks in Texas embrace it.

I think a far more suitable example to examine would be Toronto, who uses a layered system of light rail / streetcar over heavy rail to generate incredible ridership for the size of the system.

That is basically what we're attempting to do here in the city: create a core network of streetcars and light rail that overlays the heavy rail backbone.


DART has solid reach, and there's no doubt that their rider-per mile value is where it is not because of that, but the speed is just not there for the size of the system.

[fourthwarden]

Originally Posted by bu2

With MARTA stopping at the airport, it really doesn't serve the south metro.

The Clayton line will service I-75, although until it goes all the way to town (or if it is MARTA heavy rail instead of the intended commuter rail), it won't serve it well. Extending the line to the southwest to I-85 would serve those areas along I-85. It makes sense in the long run.

Originally Posted by primaltech

As much as I'm down with the idea of commuter rail, I think the best kind of transit is always going to be the kind that requires the fewest number of transfers. A single seat ride to Atlanta's job centers on the Red Line would make all the difference for people on the south side, and would justify the cost of extending the heavy rail vs building other types of rail.

Also, because you have 2 lines serving the Airport Station, Red and Gold, you could potentially have each go in a different direction. One could head out a few stops on S Fulton Pkwy, one could parallel I-85 for a few stops.

Or, MARTA could plan long term for the Gold Line to go to Riverdale, since Riverdale doesn't have a rail corridor and would be left out of the main Clayton line.

IF the money is there for it, and that's a big if, then I have no issue with extending heavy rail to serve south of I-285, particularly within the first few miles from the Perimeter.

That said, given the regional significance, current demand, likely future demand, and available right of way, frequent commuter rail just seems far more applicable for the full extent to the southern boarders of Clayton and Fulton.


In fact, I would argue to establish frequent commuter rail first, then see how heavy rail should be extended to meet growth in the southern metro. It is unlikely that heavy rail will be needed past mid-point in Clayton, or the bottom quarter point of Fulton. Frequent commuter rail would still allow the area to receive high-capacity, frequent service, while setting up for a larger regional commuter & intercity rail network to have dedicated tracks to use within the core metro area.

The commuter rail route should absolutely be brought up to 5-points, though.