Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
What about Alaska how will solar power work there.
Pretty well for more onths out of the year, incuding those days it never goes below the horizon.
Listen, the manin deal with Solar is that we can put up solar generation stations in souther states and teh grid can carry the power up to higher latitudes. Wind can also be useful in those uper latitudes.
Your arguments are like saying no one should make or buy sporty cars because they can't tow large trailers or carry heavy loads or get through deep snow... it's **** poor logic and stupid reasoning on your part.
You haven't really read anything factual about this, have you? An ICE drivetrain with engine and transmission contains hundreds of parts, many of them moving, some of them reciprocating, quite a number of them of them wearing and eventually needing adjustment or replacement. An electric vehicle motor has one moving part, and only a couple of points of wear, at the bearings. In a similar fashion the EV transmission has a single gear, because the entire speed range is all generated within the motor, and with the bonus of having 100% of the torque available from 0 mph.
This is why the Tesla S, a relatively heavy 5 passenger luxury sedan, can do 0 - 60 mph faster than a Porsche 911.
Yes, but 1) the cost is dropping rapidly, and 2) they last a long time. Tesla currently has an 8 year warranty on their batteries.
Costs are coming down rapidly, and comparable cars are nowhere near that far apart. Several EV models are now available on $200/month leases, which can wind up costing less than competitive ICE cars because of the far lower cost for energy.
The charging stations for Tesla are rolling out fairly quickly. They say that by end of the year 98% of Americans will live within 100 miles of a Supercharger. And that's just for starters.
And the cost per mile with an EV is less than half what it is in an ICE car.
Well, it may not fit your lifestyle, but sorry, you'd have to be deaf, dumb and blind not to see the obvious benefits available, such as...
Charging up your car overnight at home so you start each morning with a "full tank" is one of the benefits. Not having to sit in line to fill up at gas station means a lot to a lot of people. One of the regular posters on another forum commented that with his plug-in hybrid, which he drives every day, but has an ICE engine for backup power on a longer trip, he hasn't been to a gas station in over 4 months.
It's a zero-emissions vehicle, meaning it emits no polluting gases in operation, which is not only good for the environment, but gets you perks in certain places. For example, in Los Angeles it can get you a sticker that allows you to use multi-occupant lanes (HOV) with onle 1 person in the car, park in ZEV parking spaces, and more.
There, that's a start. You should read up on them... they are the coming thing, as the saying goes. :OK:
^^^THIS^^^
When the first automobiles came on the scene, most blacksmiths laughed at them, never recognizing their way of life was coming to an end and they were eventually run out of business.
A few wise blacksmiths recognized their way of life was ending but decided to learn how to fix automobiles and became mechanics.
Some recognize when times are changing and change with them and others do not recognize times are changing or refuse to change with the times and end up becoming irrelevant or extinct.
This is a failed argument, because if I charge my car at my house using my solar panels how have I added to the carbon footprint?
From what I've read, the benefit from solar depends on the useful life cycle of the solar panels. The manufacture of batteries and solar panels for EVs require the mining of rare earth minerals and special metals. The gases produced during the mining releases methane gases into the atmosphere. The fabrication process generates gases that are 10s of thousands of times more potent than CO2.
In the end, all sources of energy appear to be trending toward having more negative impacts on the environment. Conventional fuel sources, which are more efficient to process and easier to extract, are becoming few. The comparisons will become more favorable in time for EVs.
From what I've read, the benefit from solar depends on the useful life cycle of the solar panels. The manufacture of batteries and solar panels for EVs require the mining of rare earth minerals and special metals. The gases produced during the mining releases methane gases into the atmosphere. The fabrication process generates gases that are 10s of thousands of times more potent than CO2..
AARRRGGHHHH! We've gone over this sooo many times. EVs tend to use Lithium Ion batteries. Lithium is NOT a rare earth metal!!!!!!!! It's a relatively common alkali metal and is found in saltwater/brine and is "mined' in evaporation ponds where the water evaporates leaing the lithium bearing salts behind. It does NOT generate dangerous gasses.
AARRRGGHHHH! We've gone over this sooo many times. EVs tend to use Lithium Ion batteries. Lithium is NOT a rare earth metal!!!!!!!! It's a relatively common alkali metal and is found in saltwater/brine and is "mined' in evaporation ponds where the water evaporates leaing the lithium bearing salts behind. It does NOT generate dangerous gasses.
Yep, and battery chemistry has been changing rapidly, so things people read about even just a year or two ago are quite often no longer accurate. And here's another biggie... recycling old lithium batteries after they are done (Tesla has an 8 year warranty on theirs) is a part of the manufacturing plan for the new Giga battery factory now being built by Tesla and Panasonic near Reno, Nevada. In about two years battery performance will go up as prices drop dramatically. That's when I expect the $30-40K EV market will really take off.
Quote:
Solar panels primarily use silicons.
... which is cheap and plentiful and inherently non toxic, yup.
What's more the polycrystalline cells are all made from recycled silicon. And current PV panels come with 20 - 35 year warranties, and are really expected to last longer than that, so the recycling issue will be negligible.
Quote:
Damn, I'm getting tired of repeating myself.
Yeah, and it's because so many people like to state their opinions about things they really know little about.
At least you can call yourself a committed educator.
Honestly, the mining process of the batteries for electric cars breaks them even with conventional powered ones in terms of environment impact.
Gas cars are better for the time being. When a gas car need more power, one can fill up in 5 min and keep going. An electric car has to charge for hours.
Every car I have ever bought never met the mpg the makers stated. What's new?
First, EVs have very limited range already. If your vehicle is supposed to have a 40 mile range but only makes it 25 in your local weather/geographic conditions that is a problem. It renders the vehicle nearly useless for many or most consumers. To my knowledge no ICES have only 40 miles range. Most EVs are in that ballpark. The Tesla S is supposed to get upwards of 250 miles with the very expensive battery, but in reality it does not come close to that and that version of the S costs $100,000 (plus one must wait a year after reserving a vehicle). The less expensive Tesla battery gets about half the range and also does not make its stated range in real life conditions. That version of the S is still at least $80,000.
Second, in an EV the range gauges are consistently inaccurate, they tend to drop off very suddenly at the lower end. If you run out of power, you are stuck. No walking to get more fuel. No roaming road patrol vehicle with a can of petrol to stop and help.
Third, it appears you have not purchased a vehicle in a considerable time. Under the new standards most vehicles meet or beat the stated mileage. We currently utilize 18 vehicles. To my knowledge all of them exceed the stated mpg under careful driving conditions.
Fourth, most ICE vehicles have slightly greater fuel storage than stated. Some call it a reserve. Thus, even when the vehicle informed the driver the fuel is spent, there is still a considerable range remaining to get to a fueling station. EVs are the opposite. The range indicator drops very suddenly to zero when it gets to the lower levels. You could simply recharge before it gets near zero, but that further reduces the effective range of the vehicle and places some EVs down into the reasonable range of a bicycle ride.
Fifth, even if the ICE vehicle does not achieve the stated mpg, the range is at least fairly consistent. Thus, the driver can learn the actual range and know when to re-fuel. In additional most modern ICE vehicles inform the driver with considerable accuracy of the remaining range. EVs on the other hand tend to inform the driver inaccurately of the remaining range and the range is very inconsistent with a much greater impact form weather, wind, geography, traffic, use of accessories, etc.
Sixth. If a driver of an ICE suddenly realities they are low on petrol, they can quickly pull over and refuel almost anywhere in the US and most places worldwide. WHen the driver of an EV realizes they are low on energy, they need to get out their walking shoes.
The solution is obvious to me. Make batteries interchangeable. Trade a depleted battery at a fueling station for a fully charged one. There is no need to pay the cost of purchasing a new battery, only the cost of the charge, plus mark up to cover wear on the battery and a profit for the fueling station. Batteries also need to get smaller and lighter for this to work, but they are already making great progress in that direction.
The bottom line is that today, electric cars are not efficient or economical when compared with gas powered cars. Some people will choose to buy them, and that is fine in a free market. The market will determine when they are truly the better alternative, and at that point we can all switch.
"Costs are coming down, and things are getting better, and that used to be true but today the differential is less, and soon this or that will make it even better, and yes but the extra cost and effort will soon be comparable to..."
This is known as equivocation. The future is not now. Today, ICE is the way to go. I estimate that electric cars will become the better option in about 20-30 years, perhaps 50 if we can find more cheap oil. But I will be buying a new car soon, and based on cost and logic, it will be an ICE.
Here, I've added a few edits to your comment to make it more accurate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Paolella
The bottom line is that today, electric cars are not efficient or economical when compared with gas powered cars, for me. Some people will choose to buy them, as they already are doing, in increasing numbers, and that is fine in a free market. The market will determine when they are truly the better alternative for others, and at that point we can all switch.
"Costs are coming down, and things are getting better, and that used to be true but today the differential is less, and soon this or that will make it even better, and yes but the extra cost and effort will soon be comparable to..."
(This is known as) I consider this equivocation, even if it is demonstrably true. The future is not now, although it keeps coming at us relentlessly. Today, ICE is the way to go for me. I estimate that electric cars will become the better option for me in about 20-30 years, perhaps 50 if we can find more cheap oil, and it hasn't been carbon-taxed out of affodable use.. But I will be buying a new car soon, and based on cost and logic, it will be an ICE.
That's fine. But what I really don't get is why so many people, like you, keep presenting their own personal preferences and choices as if they were speaking about a consensus for everyone. There are probably 50 different niches that cars fall into, maybe more, yet very many people talk as if the the particular niche that fits THEM is just IT, and pretty much the way everybody drives, right?
Honestly, the mining process of the batteries for electric cars breaks them even with conventional powered ones in terms of environment impact.
NO IT ISN'T!@!!! Didn't you READ what we posted directly above you??????? The MINING PROCESS IS EVAPORATION PONDS OF SALT WATER!!! READ IT AND LEARN IT!
F*CK! The ignorance in here is ASTOUNDING!
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
