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Old 05-16-2019, 09:23 AM
 
Location: Maryland
3,798 posts, read 2,326,664 times
Reputation: 6650

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Quote:
Originally Posted by RcHydro View Post
Sorry, but Nope! For the vast majority, they're too expensive. Imagine the salesman pushing used EV's, thats a hoot..



For the most part, salesmen don't have to, as there's a booming market in used EVs as they come off lease. The demand is pretty high for used ones. Mostly because they are pretty cheap. 2015 i3s that were $50k to start are going for $15k, but they won't get much cheaper. Spark EVs and Fiat 500es are going for $7-10k. eGolfs and Focus EVs are in the middle, as are Volts.
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Old 05-16-2019, 10:19 AM
 
Location: NWA/SWMO
3,106 posts, read 3,993,174 times
Reputation: 3279
Quote:
Originally Posted by cvetters63 View Post
You need a gas powered car to refuel quickly because you can't do it at home overnight. You DON"T need an EV to refuel quickly because you CAN do it at home overnight. It's a paradigm shift in how you look at transportation and those of us that have switched have felt it. Unless you drive over 100 miles EVERY DAY you really don't need an EV with a range much longer than that.



Average annual mileage for cars these days is 12-15,000 miles per year. That equates to 33 miles per day. You can do that easily even with w Volt, much less a first gen EV with 100 miles or so of range. Bolts and Teslas with 200 miles or more of range have no problem doing the daily grind for 80% of people.
Well, I do drive 100+ miles some days, and sometimes its in 0*F weather. I'll pass on CURRENT EV's.
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Old 05-16-2019, 12:06 PM
 
4,686 posts, read 6,142,186 times
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EV's serve as a local commuter car, not Atlanta to DC or Miami car, unless you plan 2-3 stops for charging at up to 1hr each time.


You dont use a sedan to tow a trailer or boat, so more than likely you wont use a EV for a extra long road trip wanting the same time and results a s a gas car.


If i planned it right, I would try to take a Bolt on a 600 mile trip for the gas savings of $120-150, but many dont want to add 2 hrs to an already long drive.
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Old 05-16-2019, 12:32 PM
 
6,503 posts, read 3,438,264 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SAAN View Post
EV's serve as a local commuter car, not Atlanta to DC or Miami car, unless you plan 2-3 stops for charging at up to 1hr each time.


You dont use a sedan to tow a trailer or boat, so more than likely you wont use a EV for a extra long road trip wanting the same time and results a s a gas car.


If i planned it right, I would try to take a Bolt on a 600 mile trip for the gas savings of $120-150, but many dont want to add 2 hrs to an already long drive.
I personally believe the charging time (contingent on the model supporting Level 2 or Level 3 charging) can be analogous to one's tolerance for the inconvenience of a layover. You can save $200 on your "hacker fare" if you eat the 2-4 hr layover, but even a slight flight delay might mean that entire day is shot and you won't get to your hotel until all attractions are closed.

I'd weigh this economically against how much vacation I got annually, what the opportunity cost was of sacrificing that extra day, and whether I could condense my itinerary to accommodate. I'm already stopping at least twice on an 8 hour drive (maybe 3, for comfort) in response to my body. Adding fuel adds a negligible amount of time. But setting aside time for charging that may or may not be near a place you want to eat might result in that time not overlapping and adding to your trip length.

If you'd ask me, I am a direct-flight kind of guy. I wouldn't want to just sit somewhere and twiddle my thumbs if there's not a convenient charging spot by a Starbucks, restaurant, shopping, etc. I'm sure they would be smartly located. But I also consider charging etiquette, I wouldn't want to sit for an extra hour after I'm charged, partaking in something that takes 2 hours, like a movie. I own a Volt and don't think I'd face this dilemma. I'd just continue on gas for the long trip, ESPECIALLY considering the Level 2 charging and shorter battery range.

(Neat story: one time, at a Whole Foods, I parked next to a charger when both stations were occupied and left my charging door open. When I came out, someone had plugged me in before they left. I thought that was nice.)
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Old 05-18-2019, 04:44 AM
 
40 posts, read 31,384 times
Reputation: 110
About the original post, I don't see any reason to buy domestic crossovers, and my guess as to why anyone does is simple inertia of people buying the brand names they are used to, like Japanese cars were clearly better for 25 years as American cars gradually got killed off. So maybe by 2030 domestics will only be pickups.


Electric cars have some utility as a family's dual-car commuter car for the suburbs, but otherwise are inferior in most ways and the arguments supporting them are mostly wrong:


  • "Technology moves quickly" -- nonsensical considering internal combustion and electric cars were invented around the same time. When a technological spurt happens, futurists extrapolate the same rate of growth forever, when it inevitably slows down.
  • Virtually no one is willing to wait 20 minutes for a half-charge of a vehicle that already has a short range. Can you imagine Kettleman City in between L.A. and the Bay Area? You'd have to expand it probably 3-fold to get room for all the charging stations.
  • The expense: the huge subsidies per electric car & their owners not paying for the gas-road tax that everyone else does -- electric car drives are leeches living on the rest of society.
  • --> If the government subsidizes a consumer product, that's the surest sign it sucks. If it stood on its own two feet, people would buy it without a subsidy.
  • The elitist, condescending attitude of electric car fanboys -- indicative of bias towards their favored technology.
  • The basic inefficiency of batteries: you have to carry all your fuel with you. But with internal combustion, >90% of the air-fuel mixture being burned in the cylinders is free air
  • Range anxiety -- the horror stories I've read about or personally heard -- especially one guy I knew just trying to drive from the Bay Area to Sacramento for a job interview, imagine adding range anxiety onto the stress of a job interview?
  • An electric car can go roughly 300 miles at best. Whereas I can throw 4 jerry cans into the back of my pickup and drive 700+ miles, and that's not even trying that hard.
  • Something like half the people in America don't have access to an electric outlet where they park.
  • Over time, the battery and thus the whole car eventually die if they aren't left plugged in to an extension cord.
  • Modern internal combustion cars are reliable and low-maintenance enough that the simplicity of an electric powertrain isn't worth much.
  • And of course the great Global Warming end-of-the-world reasoning: the lack of sea-level rise given the 30 years that have already elapsed since the first century-long predictions were made, is the best proof that emissions of modern internal combustion engines are just fine and not causing problems.
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Old 05-18-2019, 01:36 PM
 
10,612 posts, read 12,135,583 times
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Quote:
American domestic automotive manufacturers are basically saying that they don't want my business.
That's the way I feel. For those who feel left out because some automakers are nixing sedans. How do you think I feel? I have practically no vehicle options that meed my preferences.

I want a small sporty-ish looking coupe with a hatch back.....like my Acura RSX which hasn't been made in over 10 years.
I don't want -- nor need -- a four door car.

At least sedan buyers have several options. There are a lot more sedans still to choose from than coupes with hatchbacks.
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Old 05-18-2019, 07:35 PM
 
5,479 posts, read 2,122,053 times
Reputation: 8109
Quote:
Originally Posted by selhars View Post
That's the way I feel. For those who feel left out because some automakers are nixing sedans. How do you think I feel? I have practically no vehicle options that meed my preferences.

I want a small sporty-ish looking coupe with a hatch back.....like my Acura RSX which hasn't been made in over 10 years.
I don't want -- nor need -- a four door car.

At least sedan buyers have several options. There are a lot more sedans still to choose from than coupes with hatchbacks.
There's Subaru.
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Old 05-19-2019, 12:24 AM
 
Location: NWA/SWMO
3,106 posts, read 3,993,174 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USMC1984 View Post
There's Subaru.
The ft86 or BRZ would be he RSXs spirit animal of today, imo or the civic SI, even more so.
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Old 05-19-2019, 04:40 PM
 
10,612 posts, read 12,135,583 times
Reputation: 16781
Yeah. Like I said, hardly any options.

Oh, I feel the pain of sedan drivers who aren't happy that the selection may be cut. But they still have way more choices than coupe lovers.
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Old 05-19-2019, 07:12 PM
 
5,479 posts, read 2,122,053 times
Reputation: 8109
Quote:
Originally Posted by selhars View Post
Yeah. Like I said, hardly any options.

Oh, I feel the pain of sedan drivers who aren't happy that the selection may be cut. But they still have way more choices than coupe lovers.
I have all the selection of sedans I need! ...Of course there's really only one I like so...
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