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When you factor in cost of manufacturing, rare metal mining, battery disposal, using carbon heavy fuels to recharge, Etc, Etc.......the Tesla gets 18 mpg in the real world.
a few ounces of platinum per car is a lot less than a couple hundred pounds of rare earth per battery per car. and don't forget you have to refine petroleum to power the power plants we're going to need to build or you'll have to refine uranium.
The environmental impact of producing electricity is far greater than driving vehicles it's just not your backyard.
Where did you get the couple hundred pounds of rare earth per battery per car figure from? That seems crazy. First off, they generally are used in certain types of motors and not the batteries. Second of all, they generally are in 1 or 2 kilograms if used. What is the point of simply making stuff up?
Sure, you have to refine petroleum--the cost and emissions are usually put into these exhaustive studies about how much EVs pollute. I think it's a very good idea to include all these factors. The question is, are the studies for ICE vehicles being similarly exhaustive?
once the electrical vehicles discharged it's worthless I can put more fuel in a fuel powered car. I can't you can use that mechanical pump to pump fuel I've done it before.
My step daughter in Dallas last week pumped gas at a station and after 25+ minutes she had a whole 4 gallons, I have this same problem when fuel station near me is low on diesel for my work truck. Do you really think all the fuel trucks in Dallas had studded tires on to traverse the ice and snowy roads? If she had solar on her roof, she wouldn’t need to be taking an unnecessary trip to said gas station.
I don’t know why I’m even having this conversation, you and the other guy will never change your thinking. Oh any my work truck gets 12 mpg and my personal vehicle TT V8 gets 16 mpg and I hated beating on the Taycan Turbo S, electric is boring quiet, but it’s reality now.
In 15 years time this fuel may not be available. You do not choose to have a gasoline vehicle and use gasoline. You have Hobson's choice currently. Soon you will have a choice, but most likely will choose the economic option, which is EV. Then later no choice at all having to have an EV.
Well I can simply add more fuel to the tank. I can't add more electricity to the battery if there isn't electricity.
Fuel powered cars don't need to be charged they run on fuel. Not sure if you are aware of this but there are half a dozen fuel stations within walking distance
Yeah with a fuel powered car I'll just go to a filling station. I don't need to buy a bigger generator to power my vehicle.
You can't add fuel to your tank if you don't have fuel, just like you can't add electricity when you don't have electricity.
Fuel powered cars don't need to be charged--that's true. EVs don't need to have fuel put into them. That's also true. Not sure if you're aware of this, but the electrical grid is all around you.
With a fuel powered car you can go to a dedicated filling station. With an electricity powered car, you can go to a charging station or possibly just do it at home. You don't need a gas generator to power your vehicle. You also don't need one to charge an EV, but it is an option and one of other options available like grid power if you have it, local storage/solar if you have that, natural gas generator if you have that hooked up to a natural gas pipeline.
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 02-25-2021 at 02:24 PM..
a few ounces of platinum per car is a lot less than a couple hundred pounds of rare earth per battery per car. and don't forget you have to refine petroleum to power the power plants we're going to need to build or you'll have to refine uranium.
The environmental impact of producing electricity is far greater than driving vehicles it's just not your backyard.
That is very wrong. Lithium is widely available and is not a rare earth. And the coming solid state batteries have pretty much no scarce content and do not burn.
And it is reasonably clear that the utilities are going to fully duplicate their energy generation capability with renewable resources. The fact is that the fully loaded cost of wind and solar is less that the variable cost of fossil fuel plants. So there is going to be lots electric capability developed over the next decade.
My step daughter in Dallas last week pumped gas at a station and after 25+ minutes she had a whole 4 gallons, I have this same problem when fuel station near me is low on diesel for my work truck. Do you really think all the fuel trucks in Dallas had studded tires on to traverse the ice and snowy roads? If she had solar on her roof, she wouldn’t need to be taking an unnecessary trip to said gas station.
I don’t know why I’m even having this conversation, you and the other guy will never change your thinking. Oh any my work truck gets 12 mpg and my personal vehicle TT V8 gets 16 mpg and I hated beating on the Taycan Turbo S, electric is boring quiet, but it’s reality now.
The best cars I have driven are modern EVs.
Many in Texas must be considering PV panels and EVs after having been bitten. You can generate your own energy for a EV car. You cannot do that with a gasoline car.
You factor all those in and it's still going to be in favor of EVs--you also factor in extracting and refining petroleum and distributing that petroleum, right? You still have rare earth mining for your catalytic convertor.
Much more for EV cars.....
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Originally Posted by OyCrumbler
I think going for a total accounting of things is ultimately a very good thing to do. It makes a lot of sense, but in a comparison, it also makes sense to do the same for ICE powertrains and their fuel sources as well if you're going to do it for EVs. More honesty is better!
Of course....absolutely! And I'm not saying that EV cars are not cheaper to run on a day-to-day basis, they probably are.....but they're being promoted on BS
I'm just not a fan of the cool/wow factor and the lack of knowledge about reality with these cars. The average owner doesn't get that they use fossil fuels to recharge. Honest, ask some.
But more power to 'em. I suppose if I could get a 1 ton truck that could haul a horse trailer up the side of a mountain...and it got 100 mpg....and it cost the same as an old truck......I might buy one.
Naw, I'd miss the smell and noise of a good gas or diesel......
That is very wrong. Lithium is widely available and is not a rare earth. And the coming solid state batteries have pretty much no scarce content and do not burn.
So there is a refining process for lithium and a disposal process for lithium that likely have a severe environmental impact. Also sure if solid state batteries become a thing then I'll bet her off but they're not a thing until they're a thing so pointless point made and accepted I guess.
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And it is reasonably clear that the utilities are going to fully duplicate their energy generation capability with renewable resources.
assuming you mean wind and solar bull****.
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The fact is that the fully loaded cost of wind and solar is less that the variable cost of fossil fuel plants. So there is going to be lots electric capability developed over the next decade.
I'm sorry reality dictates otherwise. Renewable energy replacing nuclear or steam generated energy is the pipiest of pipe dreams.
You can't add fuel to your tank if you don't have fuel, just like you can't add electricity when you don't have electricity.
but there is literally tons of fuel within a quarter mile of my home.
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Fuel powered cars don't need to be charged--that's true. EVs don't need to have fuel put into them. That's also true. Not sure if you're aware of this, but the electrical grid is all around you.
and if you had a magical little electric genie that you could just plug the car into anytime there's power outage you would have a point but such things don't exist.
When the power is out gasoline doesn't just cease to exist like electricity does.
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With a fuel powered car you can go to a dedicated filling station. With an electricity powered car, you can go to a charging station or possibly just do it at home.
so trade off all the conveniences and utilities of a fuel powered car except all of the DraStic inconveniences of an electric powered car for just the single convenience you can list? That is a bad deal.
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You don't need a gas generator to power your vehicle. You also don't need one to charge an EV, but it is an option and one of other options available like grid power if you have it, local storage/solar if you have that, natural gas generator if you have that hooked up to a natural gas pipeline.
if there's a power outage yes you do. I must of course you have some magical electric genie you can plug into which doesn't exist.
the better option to depending on the power grid for a stupid backward ancient electric car is a fuel powered car that's why they overtook electric cars in 1900.
electric cars are a Victorian era relic and you're not going to sell it to me is more advanced.
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mechanical pump I've used them before.
