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Population growth and technological advancement are constants throughout history. Barring a plague (of a significantly larger scale than COVID), population growth is going to continue. Hoping for that to change is an exercise in futility. Similarly, technology isn't going to simply stop advancing. With EV's, we're rapidly approaching a point at which the technology is going to surpass ICEs. It's far more likely that the technology advances to a point at which ICEs are replaced on city streets by EVs than population growth reverses and we stop investing in technological advancements. If the two symptoms of air pollution in cities are population growth and ICE vehicles on the street, the much, much easier issue to address is advancing technology to replace ICEs (as well as providing viable, alternative transit options so not as many people have to drive) as opposed to trying to reduce population.
I am all about removing helmet and seatbelt laws and other safety mandates in vehicles as well other laws that restrict individuals from making their own decisions regardless of how safe or unsafe they may be. If someone wants to commit suicide they should be allowed to do so. If someone wants to smoke, it should not be frowned upon. Abortion shouldnt be a debate. Drug overdoses should not be resuscitated. Take Covid for instance, it only affects a small part of the population, and I say let it runs its course. I am not a morbid person and certainly not looking to have mass killings to reduce the population, but rather just let nature run its course. I am very happy, enjoy life but just view population as a problem. At the end of the day, I think I was just born in the wrong decade, I just want a simple life with fewer people and less restrictions.
Enjoying the back and forth banter in this thread. I suspect the bottom line is, the marketplace will determine what type of personal transportation we eventually use. Once motive batteries come down in price to below that of internal combustion engines I think you all will objectively find that operating an EV is a fraction of the cost of operating an ICE vehicle (less maintenance, more reliable, cheaper to "fuel-up").
So, it will be what will be. I figure we'll all have a better handle on where this issue is going sometime during the next five years or so.
Agreed. It's essentially going to come down to whether or not EVs can match or exceed the performance of ICE vehicles at a similar or lower price point. Most signs point to this being likely, but we will see.
We are lucky enough not to need our cars for our commute even prior to COVID (we're both within 15 minutes from our offices via subway). The two biggest factors for us are size (we have a garage in our building, but we're in a pretty dense urban area) and the ability to get to/from our families homes in rural Vermont and Maine without stopping to refuel. I actually love driving (especially since I don't have to do it every day) and I took a pretty hard look at the Model 3 this past fall when I was searching for a new car. I enjoyed the driving experience, but ended up going with an ICE sports sedan as I still had some concerns about real world range in the winter and the relative lack of charging options should we be running low on the charge somewhere up in the woods of Maine/Vermont. I suspect that in 4-5 years, I'll end up with the EV.
Agreed. It's essentially going to come down to whether or not EVs can match or exceed the performance of ICE vehicles at a similar or lower price point. Most signs point to this being likely, but we will see.
We are lucky enough not to need our cars for our commute even prior to COVID (we're both within 15 minutes from our offices via subway). The two biggest factors for us are size (we have a garage in our building, but we're in a pretty dense urban area) and the ability to get to/from our families homes in rural Vermont and Maine without stopping to refuel. I actually love driving (especially since I don't have to do it every day) and I took a pretty hard look at the Model 3 this past fall when I was searching for a new car. I enjoyed the driving experience, but ended up going with an ICE sports sedan as I still had some concerns about real world range in the winter and the relative lack of charging options should we be running low on the charge somewhere up in the woods of Maine/Vermont. I suspect that in 4-5 years, I'll end up with the EV.
Was last fall right before the slate of changes (especially favorable towards cold weather range) the Model 3 starting rolling out late October 2020? I have a friend who missed the refresh by a couple of months and is a little miffed. For cold weather related bits, the Long Range now compared to before that refresh is 353 miles of EPA rated range versus 322 miles, has a heat pump system that supposedly is a lot more efficient at heating the cabin, doubled paned windows for sound and thermal insulation, and now comes with heated steering wheel.
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 02-24-2021 at 10:33 AM..
Was last fall right before the slate of changes (especially favorable towards cold weather range) the Model 3 starting rolling out late October 2020? I have a friend who missed the refresh by a couple of months and is a little miffed. For cold weather related bits, the Long Range now compared to before that refresh is 353 miles of EPA rated range versus 322 miles, has a heat pump system that supposedly is a lot more efficient at heating the cabin, doubled paned windows for sound and thermal insulation, and now comes with heated steering wheel.
I was looking at the "long range" version, but to be honest, I'm not sure if it was before/after the refresh. I honestly believe the range probably would have worked for me either way. My drive to Maine is the longer one (right around 200 miles - the last 30 or so miles of which are pretty remote) and I was worried that if we leave on a sub-freezing Friday in January with 2 of us in the car along with a lot of ski gear and bags, get stuck in traffic for a good chunk of the early part of the drive, that we might be cutting it uncomfortably close.
Realistically, we'd probably be OK. And if it was looking rough, we could stop at a rest area before we get to the boondocks driving and charge up a bit. So my concerns are probably unfounded. I am happy with my car which is fun to drive, OK on gas (compared to the large SUV I moved out of), and gives me peace of mind knowing that I'll either make it all the way on a single tank, or I have options if it's getting iffy. I actually spent more on this car (especially factoring in the rebate for EVs) than the Tesla would have cost me, and ultimately, I paid for the peace of mind. In hindsight, I wouldn't say I made a mistake, but the Tesla would have been fine. My next car will almost certainly be an EV.
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, 615' Elevation, Zone 8b - originally from SF Bay Area
44,550 posts, read 81,131,933 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichCapeCod
Enjoying the back and forth banter in this thread. I suspect the bottom line is, the marketplace will determine what type of personal transportation we eventually use. Once motive batteries come down in price to below that of internal combustion engines I think you all will objectively find that operating an EV is a fraction of the cost of operating an ICE vehicle (less maintenance, more reliable, cheaper to "fuel-up").
So, it will be what will be. I figure we'll all have a better handle on where this issue is going sometime during the next five years or so.
Our Tesla charging up (does it while we sleep)
How long will that last? Eventually those providing the electricity will take advantage of the opportunity to make more profit, once people depend on charging their cars. In Texas last week, the cost went from about $.09 per kilowatt hour to $9.00 per kilowatt hour. At an average of 50kWh to charge a Tesla, that's $450, enough to pay for filling the 36 gallon tank in my truck 4+ times at $3/gallon.
Ice. Transportation will die off as gasoline and diesel fuel are priced out of reach due to artificial. "shortages " due to international conflict ( pick a region and reason )
It's coming , just when is up to the Globelests of the. Country.
How long will that last? Eventually those providing the electricity will take advantage of the opportunity to make more profit, once people depend on charging their cars. In Texas last week, the cost went from about $.09 per kilowatt hour to $9.00 per kilowatt hour. At an average of 50kWh to charge a Tesla, that's $450, enough to pay for filling the 36 gallon tank in my truck 4+ times at $3/gallon.
That is simply local insanity that will soon be fixed. If it was real the entire country would go to roof arrays and power walls. Particularly any state as far south as Texas.
Any KWH above a quarter is nonsense or simply a tax scheme by the state. Reality is around a dime.
How long will that last? Eventually those providing the electricity will take advantage of the opportunity to make more profit, once people depend on charging their cars. In Texas last week, the cost went from about $.09 per kilowatt hour to $9.00 per kilowatt hour. At an average of 50kWh to charge a Tesla, that's $450, enough to pay for filling the 36 gallon tank in my truck 4+ times at $3/gallon.
If there is no market competition among electric utilities and little regulatory framework (Texas had just the latter, though that price per kWh was specifically for customers of Griddy), then it's possible for there to be a high price to squeeze out higher margins from consumers. However, even with that some places have the possibility of solar panels and batteries creating a ceiling for how high a utility can charge.
Also, keep in mind that gas companies also want to make money and electric utilities aren't against making money even if it comes at lower margins for gas companies. If the electric utilities make such a huge margin off of providing electricity for EVs that even wall power is no longer competitive with refueling gas at stations, then it would slow down EV uptake which would ultimately mean electric utility companies leaving money on the table for gas companies to take.
You are right, the rest of the world does not have an obsession of driving around in construction vehicles.
Quote:
Originally Posted by John-UK
I have driven all over the USA. I have seen more of the USA than the average American for sure. I have worked in the USA. The average American does not get up and drive 3,000 miles on a regular basis. Most Americans live in urban areas as well.
"It is estimated that 83% of the U.S. population lives in urban areas, up from 64% in 1950. By 2050, 89% of the U.S. population and 68% of the world population is projected to live in urban areas."
Greater urbanisation will dictate that the air in the urban areas has to be clean. That is why EVs, or any zero emission vehicles, will be adopted. The days of poisoning the air we breath are drawing to a close.
Laughable. A troll from across the pond trying to tell Americans what is typical in America.
Last edited by Vic Romano; 02-25-2021 at 12:41 AM..
After our little power outage in Texas there's no way in hell I'm ever buying an electric car.
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