Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
You just do not get it and nothing anyone says is going to change that because you have no interest in understanding the pros of EVs. Are there cons? Absolutely. Why not focus on the real cons instead of making fakes ones up?
The main reason that EVs are affected by cold weather is because of the battery temperature dropping below the ideal temperature range (60-80 F or 12-26 C). When battery temperatures drop below the low end of their ideal range, the chemical reactions that generate electrons to supply the current of the battery slow down, resulting in the battery producing less current.
AAA completed a study on EVs and the reduced mileage range as a result of cold weather. A wide variety of EVs with an average mileage range per charge of 100 miles were tested at 20 F and 75 F.
The study found that at the colder temperature the average range fell 12% when no heater was used in the vehicles. When a cabin heater was on, the driving range dropped by an average of 41%.
While those statistics may shock some, it’s important to note that cold weather also affects fuel efficiency of internal combustion engine (ICE) vehicles. In fact, a study completed by FleetCarma (a Geotab company), found that on average, ICE vehicles had a 19% decrease range at 0 F.
As you can see above, ambient temperatures affect both EVs and ICE vehicles, and as I wrote before the EPA mile range calculations when comparing EVs to ICE vehicles are the same (combined mileage for both EVs and ICE vehicles). The discharge rate of the battery is also taken into account. It does not matter is it is hot or cold, for ambient temperature affects EVs and ICE vehicles. My Toyota Corolla burns at least one-third more fuel during the winter than summer, maybe more sometimes.
My previous post has nothing to do with the pros and cons of one vehicle or the other. It is a fact that electricity to power a motor (EV) is a lot more efficient than fuel usage on an ICE vehicle. We all know that.
And this one relates to everything I have written above. Although it applies to EV's, some of the suggestions are equally good for ICE vehicles to help you save fuel: https://www.energy.gov/eere/electric...e-temperatures
As you can see above, ambient temperatures affect both EVs and ICE vehicles, and as I wrote before the EPA mile range calculations when comparing EVs to ICE vehicles are the same (combined mileage for both EVs and ICE vehicles). The discharge rate of the battery is also taken into account. It does not matter is it is hot or cold, for ambient temperature affects EVs and ICE vehicles. My Toyota Corolla burns at least one-third more fuel during the winter than summer, maybe more sometimes.
My previous post has nothing to do with the pros and cons of one vehicle or the other. It is a fact that electricity to power a motor (EV) is a lot more efficient than fuel usage on an ICE vehicle. We all know that.
Ugh. Your hypothesis that stop and go traffic is harder on range is patently false. When sitting in bumper to bumper traffic, EVs are using far less power than an idling ICE. It’s because of this that EVs actually have better city range than highway range; the opposite of ICE vehicles. My Tesla is rated 320 city and 297 highway.
Having to sit in a bunch of traffic is a reason to get an EV, not a reason to shy away from them.
As to your never ending cold weather concerns, I’ve told you numerous times that I drive an EV over high mountain passes in the winter in 0 degree temps. It works just fine.
Ugh. Your hypothesis that stop and go traffic is harder on range is patently false. When sitting in bumper to bumper traffic, EVs are using far less power than an idling ICE. It’s because of this that EVs actually have better city range than highway range; the opposite of ICE vehicles. My Tesla is rated 320 city and 297 highway.
Having to sit in a bunch of traffic is a reason to get an EV, not a reason to shy away from them.
As to your never ending cold weather concerns, I’ve told you numerous times that I drive an EV over high mountain passes in the winter in 0 degree temps. It works just fine.
If you aren't listening to the radio running windshield wipers headlights and the heater. But yeah sitting in traffic will reduce range. Going up hill will reduce range. Having to provide heat to the battery will reduce range. It may be negligible it may not reduce the capability.
If you aren't listening to the radio running windshield wipers headlights and the heater. But yeah sitting in traffic will reduce range. Going up hill will reduce range. Having to provide heat to the battery will reduce range. It may be negligible it may not reduce the capability.
Of the things you listed, heat and hills are the only meaningful factors. Radios and windshield wipers are not substantial. Air conditioning is not very substantial either.
The most efficient heating is done through the seat heaters so if you are really worried about range, you can keep the cabin at 60 degrees and crank the seat heaters. Honestly though, these weird edge cases that Ray in Alaska keeps coming up with are disproven by all the Teslas I see driving around Colorado in the wintertime.
Ugh. Your hypothesis that stop and go traffic is harder on range is patently false.When sitting in bumper to bumper traffic, EVs are using far less power than an idling ICE. It’s because of this that EVs actually have better city range than highway range; the opposite of ICE vehicles. My Tesla is rated 320 city and 297 highway.
Having to sit in a bunch of traffic is a reason to get an EV, not a reason to shy away from them.
As to your never ending cold weather concerns, I’ve told you numerous times that I drive an EV over high mountain passes in the winter in 0 degree temps. It works just fine.
You are correct. The EV uses less battery power during city driving, and also in bumper to bumper traffic when compared to an ICE vehicle. But the EV's battery is still being drained of power, which in turn reduces driving distances. The ICE vehicle in turn is being drained of fuel. Your Tesla is rated that way for ideal conditions (cold winter and very hot summer conditions aren't included), and so every other automobile on the road. These are the EPA ratings I mentioned in previous posts. My Corolla uses more fuel during the winter than it does during the summer, and less fuel on a flat road than driving up a hill. Your Tesla uses more battery power on the same conditions (up hills, towing, overloading the vehicle high speed driving in excess of 75MPH, under-inflated tires, high use of AC or heat, rapid acceleration to then sharp stops at the traffic light, extremely sharp turns at the corners, braking during a street turn, and so on). The same applies to ICE vehicles.
I also agree with you that one shouldn't shy away from buying an EV because of traffic jambs and such. However, every buyer has his or her own reasons for taking the plunge or not, and there is not reason for not taking into consideration the things we have mentioned in this thread. It has nothing to do with dissuading or persuading anybody to buy one vehicle or the other.
If you aren't listening to the radio running windshield wipers headlights and the heater. But yeah sitting in traffic will reduce range. Going up hill will reduce range. Having to provide heat to the battery will reduce range. It may be negligible it may not reduce the capability.
Honestly, the heater is really the only thing that consumes any noticeable range. The a/c in my car uses maybe 1 or 2kw, however the heater can use up to 7kw. I have sat in a parking lot for an hour before with the a/c running the whole time, and only lost 2 miles worth of range. EVs use a variable speed compressor, so they only work as hard as they need to. And of course, having tinted windows helps.
You are correct. The EV uses less battery power during city driving, and also in bumper to bumper traffic when compared to an ICE vehicle. But the EV's battery is still being drained of power, which in turn reduces driving distances. The ICE vehicle in turn is being drained of fuel. Your Tesla is rated that way for ideal conditions (cold winter and very hot summer conditions aren't included), and so every other automobile on the road. These are the EPA ratings I mentioned in previous posts.
I also agree with you that one shouldn't shy away from buying an EV because of traffic jambs and such. However, every buyer has his or her own reasons for taking the plunge or not, and there is not reason for not taking into consideration the things we have mentioned in this thread. It has nothing to do with dissuading or persuading anybody to buy one vehicle or the other.
Then what, exactly, is your point: cars lose energy by being used? If that’s it, then I think we agree.
If you do not want a car that loses energy through use, you should not buy an EV. It will need to be charged when you get home.
In my less than ideal conditions of driving in zero degree weather over very steep mountains, my car can still get 100 miles from Denver to Vail without an issue. YMMV.
Honestly, the heater is really the only thing that consumes any noticeable range. The a/c in my car uses maybe 1 or 2kw, however the heater can use up to 7kw. I have sat in a parking lot for an hour before with the a/c running the whole time, and only lost 2 miles worth of range. EVs use a variable speed compressor, so they only work as hard as they need to. And of course, having tinted windows helps.
Of course you loose range you can't use energy with out losing range. It's just a matter of how much and if it's worth it.
In a cold climate, I think a PHEV makes more sense than a BEV. On really cold days you can run the engine and use the waste heat from it to warm the cabin, and on milder days use can use EV mode and just use heated seats. The beauty of PHEV is that you have that choice.
Of course you loose range you can't use energy with out losing range. It's just a matter of how much and if it's worth it.
My point was that the a/c doesn't use all that much power.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
