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View Poll Results: Does Anyone Still Believe BEVs won't be 50% of New Car Sales by 2030?
Yes, I am still in denial 83 62.41%
No, you were right along Ze 50 37.59%
Voters: 133. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-26-2021, 01:06 PM
 
Location: Vallejo
22,027 posts, read 25,388,768 times
Reputation: 19225

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Quote:
Originally Posted by cvetters63 View Post
And it's a stupid use of taxpayer money to subsidize oil production and the war machine that is spending trillions to keep oil shipping lanes safe. If those costs were passed on to the consumer gas would be tens of dollars a gallon.

How much do you think this cost?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-m...-idUSKCN1TF20N
Dunno how much that costs. There's around 16,000,000 new cars sold every year. If each one of those comes with a 7,500 welfare check split between the consumer and manufacturer though, it's pretty easy to ballpark how much that would cost. $120,000,000,000 per year.

Don't get me wrong, the defense budget probably should be closer to $120,000,000,000 rather than closer to $700,000,000,000 but solution to the bloated defense budget is not welfare where we go and blow up stuff around cobalt mines rather than some oil. We don't really need to go blowing up stuff over oil anyway. We have plenty here and were a net exporter. To the extent we even need imported oil, just get it from Canada and Mexico, which is mostly where we get it anyway, and neither of those countries really needs stuff blown up to sell us oil.

 
Old 07-26-2021, 01:07 PM
 
9,611 posts, read 4,426,819 times
Reputation: 10739
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dopo View Post
What the idiots don't realize is that ICE cars have been moving towards "electrical" for decades
Best example of that is fuel injection vs carburator

Dude, what's with the hostility? Calling people idiots while trying to have rational discussion about EV adoption isn't helpful.
 
Old 07-26-2021, 01:09 PM
 
Location: Not far from Fairbanks, AK
20,329 posts, read 37,368,644 times
Reputation: 16451
Quote:
Originally Posted by cvetters63 View Post
Does your phone text you to remind you to plug in and have an app that keeps track of it? I know of zero EV owners that forget to plug in. I know of plenty (and I'm one) that has no need to plug in every day, and the car texts me to say "hey, did you plug in?"
Do you like the billions spent subsidizing oil production so you can have cheap gas? How about the trillions spent by the military protecting oil supply routes? Wonder how much this small protection package cost?

US and Gulf Allies face tough task protecting oil shipping lanes

If you had to pay the externalities of oil costs, you wouldn't buy gasoline anymore.

I'd rather use a tax CREDIT to buy an EV (though my present one had no tax credits available and it was still cheap) than spend money on the war machine keeping oil lanes safe.
The US subsidizes all US industries, not just "gas." All of these industries are the private US sector, which by the way, is the place that facilitates local and federal governments (the public sector) to exist. The US regulates and protects all the resources that make this nation strong: petroleum, farming, real-estate (land), minerals, waters (seas, oceans, air, space), inhabitants (people, fish, animals, and so on). All of these (and more) things, including the people, are what keeps our economy strong.

Don't expect the US to not to protect and defend any industries that are of importance to the US economy.
 
Old 07-26-2021, 01:26 PM
 
Location: Western PA
11,076 posts, read 4,732,641 times
Reputation: 6952
Quote:
Originally Posted by cvetters63 View Post
And it's a stupid use of taxpayer money to subsidize oil production and the war machine that is spending trillions to keep oil shipping lanes safe. If those costs were passed on to the consumer gas would be tens of dollars a gallon.

How much do you think this cost?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-m...-idUSKCN1TF20N

you are right. we are net exporter, why do we need to keep 'lanes open' for others. oh thats right, they wont help themselves. just call uncle sugar.
 
Old 07-26-2021, 01:35 PM
 
Location: Western PA
11,076 posts, read 4,732,641 times
Reputation: 6952
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeApelido View Post
I mean, yeah if the U.S. refuses to expand its energy generation it will be a problem.

.

what do you mean will?


we are building plants this year. mostly (like over 70%) wind and solar.


27.6gw installed capacity will be built, but like all the others in the US, will likely return 18%, lets be generous and say 20%. that means we can perhaps count on 5Gw. yet we are retiring 9.1gw of base load so far with more announced.


is this a net GAIN or loss? somewhere, somehow, the narrative switched from base capacity, to installed capacity.


reality has never born out renewables ever coming more than a small fraction of delivered/installed.


problem?


ignore it?


so, in the real world, we are NOT solving it. We are making it worse. and you know who will suffer the most? everything from the rockies over to the pacific.


so mebbe just mebbe there are people reading this who dont believe in magic bunnies. who pay attention to WHERE the product that comes from faucets and wall sockets originate. I have found, that people who do not, are generally city folk. Get enough city services supplied in exchange for some base tax rate, and the details suffer and they become willing to believe any swill. ergo...we get these threads created......
 
Old 07-26-2021, 02:44 PM
 
Location: Alabama
13,849 posts, read 8,137,673 times
Reputation: 7199
This is not a case of the market driving supply and demand.

This is manipulation of the market by governments.
 
Old 07-26-2021, 03:10 PM
 
Location: Victory Mansions, Airstrip One
6,833 posts, read 5,143,882 times
Reputation: 9295
Quote:
Unions in the U.S. and Europe, fearing a steep loss of jobs tied to making engines and transmissions, are appealing to governments to help protect their members. The United Auto Workers has warned that the move to electric vehicles, which the union has said require fewer parts and roughly 30% less manpower to produce, could jeopardize tens of thousands of U.S. jobs.
By that logic we should go back to riding horses. Just think of the of jobs created... horse breeders and stable owners for starters. Then there are all of the farming jobs to raise the alfalfa and grains needed to feed the horses. Plus the tremendous number of sanitary engineers needed to clean all the horse crap off the streets.
 
Old 07-26-2021, 04:03 PM
 
Location: Lone Mountain Las Vegas NV
18,058 posts, read 10,448,063 times
Reputation: 8828
Demand will bring the electrical generation into line. The fully loaded cost of solar is less than the variable operating cost of natural gas. So the utilities will mostly duplicate their base non renewable plants with solar and run solar as long as is practical. Over the next decade it is a virtual certainty that the storage capability will become real. So the utilities will simply add the storage to the solar and cycle out the gas.
.
Vehicles are somewhat more complex but the generation is pretty clear
 
Old 07-26-2021, 04:20 PM
 
4,621 posts, read 2,259,557 times
Reputation: 3957
Quote:
Originally Posted by EscAlaMike View Post
This is not a case of the market driving supply and demand.

This is manipulation of the market by governments.
So this should tell you something about this whole thing even with the government's thumb on the scale electric cars aren't gaining any widespread adoption. They can make all the laws they want vehicle manufacturers will not make something that they cannot sell.

Taking away choices is bad news for everybody.
 
Old 07-26-2021, 04:22 PM
 
Location: western NY
6,619 posts, read 3,269,130 times
Reputation: 10397
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hankrigby View Post
So this should tell you something about this whole thing even with the government's thumb on the scale electric cars aren't gaining any widespread adoption. They can make all the laws they want vehicle manufacturers will not make something that they cannot sell.

Taking away choices is bad news for everybody.
Indeed.......
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