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Wondering how long a battery will hold a charge without being used. For example, if one is away for three months, will the charger “trickle” safely and indefinitely?
Own two EVs (Tesla model Y and Chevy Bolt 2019 Premier). Left the Bolt for eight months plugged in on Cape Cod while living in AZ (Covid kept us away several more months than we had anticipated).
Bolt stored under a carport, 45% state of charge. When we returned to the Bolt it was as if we had never left it.
Drove the Bolt to AZ that October (now that was an adventure...). Which is why we now have a Tesla, which went from AZ to Cape Cod to AZ with no issues. Bolt remained plugged in (45% SOC), in our garage, in AZ.
Rich
Bolt happily plugged in inside our garage in AZ. Using 120v outlet. Works just fine.
Tesla under carport on Cape Cod. 240v outlet used.
Bolt in NM being charged while enroute to AZ. Wife chatting with local resident.
Spouse confused as to why no gasoline coming out of charge plug...
Last edited by RichCapeCod; 12-29-2021 at 10:22 PM..
I definitely don't think you need an EV or need to feel you like EVs. To each their own. I'm just stating that in terms of performance, the EV powertrains put them in a higher league almost across the board in performance whether on track or on trails. That's just what it is, and not everyone cares about that. It's okay if you don't, but it doesn't change that it's true or that some people do care. Similarly, you're proud that your vehicle makes more noise by default, costs more to refuel, and accelerates more slowly. That's fine, that's your preferences, and while I don't necessarily share those preferences, it doesn't mean that those aren't true.
You know, I read your entire post and there's so much bull in there I don't even know where to start. So I won't. Just tell me this - if EVs are so much better at absolutely everything (different league and all) how come the Model S Plaid (fastest EV available to date) got its musky ass handed to it at the Nurgburgring by a fancy Beetle with nearly 30% less power and a higher center of gravity? And we're not talking about a few seconds here but 50! I mean if EVs are sooo much better shouldn't all ICE cars lose to it? And the GT2 wasn't the only car that wiped the floor with the Plaid, there were plenty of others. Of course you can write it off to the fact that Musk's moron gadget-building engineers learned to design cars in video games and they will never hold a candle to *real* car engineers at Porsche that actually know how to build cars but I digress. I'd love to see your take on it.
You know, I read your entire post and there's so much bull in there I don't even know where to start. So I won't. Just tell me this - if EVs are so much better at absolutely everything (different league and all) how come the Model S Plaid (fastest EV available to date) got its musky ass handed to it at the Nurgburgring by a fancy Beetle with nearly 30% less power and a higher center of gravity? And we're not talking about a few seconds here but 50! I mean if EVs are sooo much better shouldn't all ICE cars lose to it? And the GT2 wasn't the only car that wiped the floor with the Plaid, there were plenty of others. Of course you can write it off to the fact that Musk's moron gadget-building engineers learned to design cars in video games and they will never hold a candle to *real* car engineers at Porsche that actually know how to build cars but I digress. I'd love to see your take on it.
Are you talking about the modified Porsche 911 GT2 RS from Manthey-Racing? Yea, the basis of it is definitely a (great) production vehicle, but it's not a stock car as the Plaid is. It's going to be pretty unlikely that there isn't going to be someone to mod an EV production vehicle or an EV stock production vehicle released within the next year or two that takes the official top spot at Nurburgring. I don't think it'll be a large four door sedan that does it though the thought of that is admittedly pretty funny to me. Hell, make it a minivan!
I don't much like the Plaid. I think there are some really odd design choices, and I definitely haven't come around on the steering yoke. I also think selling it with that much power and at such a price point and then having an afterthought additional $20K option to add properly sized brakes to the Plaid seems pretty irresponsible. Raise the base price if they have to, but with that much power, properly sized brakes seems like it should be standard. I think I'd put my money on Porsche. I know the Porsche Taycan doesn't have the raw performance specs of the Model S Plaid, but as a first foray from Porsche, it's really solid, and I think whatever is their next iteration on EVs (with a two door coupé) is probably going to be more than just really solid since Porsche put up a massive investment in Rimac and the Nevera's definitely more than solid. Though maybe the next Tesla Roadster will come out in the next two years and will be up for the task.
Also, I hope you understand that the conversation was about performance of a Lexus LX versus a Rivian R1S and GMC Hummer on tracks and trails. These are sort of different categories of vehicles, y'know? I don't expect any of these three to set Nurburgring records unless we're going for very specific subcategories. As unlikely as I think a large four door sedan will hold the Nurburgring production vehicle record, I think it's even more unlikely that a large SUV will hold the record. I believe it's pretty well established that different vehicle classifications have different strong points rather than there's a perfect vehicle class that hits all the points the best. For example, while EVs are very efficient compared to ICE vehicles, the GMC Hummer EV is going to have builds that are going to have a mpge that are probably not as good compared to the mpg of some of the most efficient hybrids like the Hyundai Ioniq hybrid. Does that mean EVs aren't more efficient? Well, it's likely true that the GMC Hummer EV in its brawniest configuration probably isn't going to have a higher mpg-e as the most efficient Hyundai Ioniq hybrid's mpg (though I'm guessing it'll be close) so in that kind of narrow sense, sure, but I think the more accurate way of putting things is that they're more efficient for within their segment compared to their closest ICE competitors.
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 12-30-2021 at 12:30 AM..
Plus as of now the Plaid can't go around corners as it's an open diff setup. Now that's not how Tesla's work, they're all open diff and then use torque vectoring to go around corners similar to what Mazda does. They didn't do the software though at least at the time of releasing the car. Strange choice, but basically it handles much worse than a regular Model S which has the brake vectoring to simulate a limited slip.
Brakes on a Tesla are simple as they are just brakes. No blender regen to worry about. If you want big carbon brakes, you can just put big carbon brakes. Personally I don't think it's really necessary on a street car. The S2000 came with some really bad brakes even for 1999. Today they're basically Flintstone brakes and I'd be surprised if a base model Corolla doesn't come with better ones. Admittedly it's half the weight and three times as slow but they're fine for street. On the track, yeah, they overheat. If you want to set lap times in a three ton barge that's as fast as a Plaid and can't go around corners very well, then those carbon stoppers are a must.
Plaid 70 to 0 150 feet average.
BNW m550i 70 to 0 149 feet.
7 Series 156 to 159 feet.
Taycan 147 feet.
Model S LR on garbage LRR tires 179 feet.
...how come the Model S Plaid (fastest EV available to date) got its musky ass handed to it at the Nurgburgring by a fancy Beetle with nearly 30% less power and a higher center of gravity? And we're not talking about a few seconds here but 50! ....
I'd really like to read about that race! Please give us a link to check it out.
Thanks,
Rich
This is what popped-up when I tried Goggling the subject. ??:
Watch Tesla's $133,000 Model S Plaid race around the Nürburgring in record time
Both races come down to hundredths of seconds, but each time the Mustang is victorious. In the first heat, the Shelby GT500 hit the quarter-mile marker in 7.91 seconds at a speed of 159.3 mph, compared to the Model S Plaid’s 7.97 seconds and 154.94 mph, according to TopSpeed. In the second heat, the muscle car covered the same ground in 7.66 seconds at a speed of 160.94 mph, while the EV did the same in 7.68 seconds and 155.19 mph.
Those two head-to-head races weren’t the only times the Shelby GT500 beat the Model S Plaid, though. The tail end of the video also shows both cars running standing quarter miles on their own. Again, the muscle car comes out on top, hitting the line in 9.14 seconds compared to the Plaid’s 9.24 seconds.
And finally found this when searching "tesla plaid gets beat by porsche 911 GT2 RS by 50 seconds":
This Tesla Model S Plaid has beaten the 911 GT2 RS at Laguna Seca
Both races come down to hundredths of seconds, but each time the Mustang is victorious. In the first heat, the Shelby GT500 hit the quarter-mile marker in 7.91 seconds at a speed of 159.3 mph, compared to the Model S Plaid’s 7.97 seconds and 154.94 mph, according to TopSpeed. In the second heat, the muscle car covered the same ground in 7.66 seconds at a speed of 160.94 mph, while the EV did the same in 7.68 seconds and 155.19 mph.
Those two head-to-head races weren’t the only times the Shelby GT500 beat the Model S Plaid, though. The tail end of the video also shows both cars running standing quarter miles on their own. Again, the muscle car comes out on top, hitting the line in 9.14 seconds compared to the Plaid’s 9.24 seconds.
And finally found this when searching "tesla plaid gets beat by porsche 911 GT2 RS by 50 seconds":
This Tesla Model S Plaid has beaten the 911 GT2 RS at Laguna Seca
That first link about the Model S Plaid beating a record for that track is a record for production EVs specifically and that was with a completely unmodified Model S Plaid--so stock. That's not an overall record for a production vehicle though (and there are even faster records for vehicles that are not production vehicles). The record the Model S Plaid beat for production EVs which was set with another larger four door sedan, the Porsche Taycan.
The second link was for a race against a specially tuned Shelby GT500--so that's not stock, versus a stock unmodified Model S Plaid. Another relevant difference between modified and stock is that one of these is a two door coupe, the other is a large four door sedan.
The third link was a modified Plaid S beating the record set for a 911 GT2 RS, but I believe, though I'm not sure, that was a stock 911 GT2 RS. This isn't the record for the track, there's a McLaren that does better, but it's interesting paired with the Nurburgring difference set by these two vehicles and where it's revered within the Plaid S being a stock vehicle and the 911 GT2 RS being a modified vehicle.
Underlying much of this is that the Model S Plaid is a large four door sedan whereas these other vehicles, save for the more direct Porsche Taycan rival which is also a large four door sedan, are smaller two door coupés. There is a difference that comes from these form factors that are more than just from the powertrain. Now this also goes back to one of the current weaknesses of EVs in the US market which is that there is a more limited selection compared to ICE vehicles. That's likely to change more and more over the course of this decade--after all, the first pickup truck was just released fairly recently and another shortly afterwards. It may be another year or two before there's a new EV two door coupé in production, as I think the last one for sale in the US is the long gone original Tesla Roadster. My bet for first EV to hold the production vehicle record for Nurburgring is Porsche with a two-door EV, though maybe Tesla will do some wild **** with the new Roadster when it comes out with something ridiculous like a completely driverless run or some other nutty thing.
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 12-30-2021 at 10:44 AM..
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, 615' Elevation, Zone 8b - originally from SF Bay Area
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Speaking of the Tesla, I thought this was a great article! I've heard of classic ICE cars being converted to electric, but now someone is converting and EV to ICE.
That first link about the Model S Plaid beating a record for that track is a record for production EVs specifically and that was with a completely unmodified Model S Plaid--so stock. That's not an overall record for a production vehicle though (and there are even faster records for vehicles that are not production vehicles). The record the Model S Plaid beat for production EVs which was set with another larger four door sedan, the Porsche Taycan.
The second link was for a race against a specially tuned Shelby GT500--so that's not stock, versus a stock unmodified Model S Plaid. Another relevant difference between modified and stock is that one of these is a two door coupe, the other is a large four door sedan.
The third link was a modified Plaid S beating the record set for a 911 GT2 RS, but I believe, though I'm not sure, that was a stock 911 GT2 RS. This isn't the record for the track, there's a McLaren that does better, but it's interesting paired with the Nurburgring difference set by these two vehicles and where it's revered within the Plaid S being a stock vehicle and the 911 GT2 RS being a modified vehicle.
Underlying much of this is that the Model S Plaid is a large four door sedan whereas these other vehicles, save for the more direct Porsche Taycan rival which is also a large four door sedan, are smaller two door coupés. There is a difference that comes from these form factors that are more than just from the powertrain. Now this also goes back to one of the current weaknesses of EVs in the US market which is that there is a more limited selection compared to ICE vehicles. That's likely to change more and more over the course of this decade--after all, the first pickup truck was just released fairly recently and another shortly afterwards. It may be another year or two before there's a new EV two door coupé in production, as I think the last one for sale in the US is the long gone original Tesla Roadster. My bet for first EV to hold the production vehicle record for Nurburgring is Porsche with a two-door EV, though maybe Tesla will do some wild **** with the new Roadster when it comes out with something ridiculous like a completely driverless run or some other nutty thing.
Sedan record is set by of all things a Jaguar at around 12 seconds faster. The extra 400 HP only helps so much for a car that doesn't have great handling. I mean, for a normal large sedan the Model S handles very well when you start talking about Lambos, GT 2 RS, Ferrari, McLaren, not so much any longer.
Rimac possibly. That's going into production soon, just a question of whether or not it can handle and has the cooling to use the 1,900 HP. It's heavy though and it's a company with no known history.
Those lights don't use much electrical power. They're generally LEDs on EVs and these modern EVs have large battery packs as in often over 100 kWh. Generally most EVs now also give you the option to look at power consumption details broken down by different subsystems. Lights are just about meaningless in terms of power consumption. You might be thinking about what happens in an ICE vehicle when you keep the lights on for a while, but the engine off and they drain the battery without the alternator charging it. Those batteries generally have less than 1 kWh of capacity.
You can tow a generator to recharge the battery if you want. I think it's an odd choice, but whatever suits you. Tow whatever you like.
Again, I am not arguing about EV versus ICE vehicles. But if off-roading at night, regardless if you use LED or halogen light bars the power draw is significant. On an ICE truck or UTV with the motor running, the alternator (or magneto of the UTV) provides all the power needed for the lights and winch, so the power draw through the battery does not discharge the battery. However, the longer the motor runs, the more fuel it burns until the tank is empty, thus the reason why off-readers carry extra fuel with them.
Since an EV does not have an alternator to keep the battery used for accessories, lights, and "winch," charged... this battery will be completely discharged if the main battery does not route power to it when off roading (for example). The fuel powering the EV is the main battery.
Both the EVs and ICE automobiles have their own limitations, and advantages. It does not mean that one is absolutely the best for all peoples over the other. Thats the reason why I mentioned that it makes no sense to argue about it.
They have to argue about it. They have to convince you to think like they do. Its not just with cars either.
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