Coronavirus (assistance, pass, foreclosure)

[sav858]

Originally Posted by roadwarrior101

I'm aligned that they could've been more surgical about this approach (identifying high risk businesses and communicating effectively). On the other hand, the spread has increased dramatically and something drastic has been needed here. You've already stated that you aren't troubled by the numbers, but plenty of others are and find the trend unacceptably high.

I wouldn't quite say that. I don't think the positivity rate and per capita case rate is drastically high, yes the number of cases are. But as far as hospitalizations, the % of COVID patients isn't drastically high either, in the region at least.

They knew this was coming, they know damn well hospitals fill up this time of year. every single year. So basically businesses, who aren't proven to contribute to spread, and their employees have the pay the price for CA's inadequate planning.

[roadwarrior101]

Originally Posted by sav858

I wouldn't quite say that. I don't think the positivity rate and per capita case rate is drastically high, yes the number of cases are. But as far as hospitalizations, the % of COVID patients isn't drastically high either, in the region at least.

They knew this was coming, they know damn well hospitals fill up this time of year. every single year. So basically businesses, who aren't proven to contribute to spread, and their employees have the pay the price for CA's inadequate planning.

Again, you're playing Monday morning quarterback here. I've agreed with you all along that missteps were made in the past several months. But, that doesn't help matters to dwell on the past at this point. What is helpful is figuring out how we should solve for this NOW. You can conduct your post mortem after this pandemic is over. I'm sure it'll be helpful in our preparation for the next one.

[sav858]

Originally Posted by roadwarrior101

Again, you're playing Monday morning quarterback here. I've agreed with you all along that missteps were made in the past several months. But, that doesn't help matters to dwell on the past at this point. What is helpful is figuring out how we should solve for this NOW. You can conduct your post mortem after this pandemic is over. I'm sure it'll be helpful in our preparation for the next one.

It also doesn't help matters to shut down businesses and activities that don't contribute to the spread. It's counterproductive actually.

Opening up temporary hospitals or surge beds wouldn't help mitigate this problem NOW?

[roadwarrior101]

Originally Posted by sav858

It also doesn't help matters to shut down businesses and activities that don't contribute to the spread. It's counterproductive actually.

What helps matters then? Shutting down businesses reduces community spread. You can argue that it creates economic issues, but it does help to control spread.

[sav858]

Originally Posted by roadwarrior101

What helps matters then? Shutting down businesses reduces community spread. You can argue that it creates economic issues, but it does help to control spread.

You don't have any evidence to support that, at least not the latest category of businesses.

[roadwarrior101]

Originally Posted by sav858

You don't have any evidence to support that, at least not the latest category of businesses.

Minimizing contact with others in the community has been proven to reduce COVID. Businesses that have closed require close contact between people. Not sure how that's not evidence.

[sav858]

Originally Posted by roadwarrior101

Minimizing contact with others in the community has been proven to reduce COVID. Businesses that have closed require close contact between people. Not sure how that's not evidence.

How does outdoor dining require close contact? These other businesses people are masked with other safety protocols. If you have the evidence that they actually contribute to spread then please feel free to present it. But the state has even acknowledged they don't.

[roadwarrior101]

Originally Posted by sav858

How does outdoor dining require close contact? These other businesses people are masked with other safety protocols. If you have the evidence that they actually contribute to spread then please feel free to present it. But the state has even acknowledged they don't.

I gave 2 examples of outdoor dining having close contact that I've observed recently:

1. Tarps/covers that are enclosed on sides, thus not providing adequate ventilation
2. Restaurants packing the seats closer together than 6 feet (and no these aren't from the same household)

Also, you're ignoring the fact that even with this spacing, the fact that people are not wearing masks doesn't protect the servers and other restaurant employees.

For the other businesses, they should appeal to the state/county to hear their case. I don't make the call on what's safe and what isn't, the state and county does. And yes, they have been consulting medical experts in making these calls. But if you feel you know better, then go appeal the case. It seems that some restaurant owners in LA have had luck with this already.

[sav858]

Originally Posted by roadwarrior101

I gave 2 examples of outdoor dining having close contact that I've observed recently:

1. Tarps/covers that are enclosed on sides, thus not providing adequate ventilation
2. Restaurants packing the seats closer together than 6 feet (and no these aren't from the same household)

Also, you're ignoring the fact that even with this spacing, the fact that people are not wearing masks doesn't protect the servers and other restaurant employees.

For the other businesses, they should appeal to the state/county to hear their case. I don't make the call on what's safe and what isn't, the state and county does. And yes, they have been consulting medical experts in making these calls. But if you feel you know better, then go appeal the case. It seems that some restaurant owners in LA have had luck with this already.

So your example are businesses not following safety protocols/guidelines? That's a terrible argument as most businesses are not like that.

A judge did rule against the outdoor dining ban in LA. Hopefully more are taking the state/gov to court as well.

Yes we know "medical experts" but go ahead and keep ignoring the other medical experts who don't agree with the current shutdown measures.

[CA4Now]

Originally Posted by sav858

How does outdoor dining require close contact? These other businesses people are masked with other safety protocols. If you have the evidence that they actually contribute to spread then please feel free to present it.

See the restaurant thread in the L.A. sub forum. https://www.city-data.com/forum/los-...hares-her.html