Hyperion: Tallest Redwood: Heard hide or hair? Scuttlebutt? (Sacramento: lawyer, to buy)

[totallyawesometruthsayer]

Originally Posted by mdvaden

So we can bounce this idea around outside the forum. Regarding the reply comment prior to yours, is the other now back-peddling from their "brave" or "noble" stamp of approval?

Not at all. It's always noble to expose secrets for the benefit of the masses. I'm just suggesting that escalating things by doing something crazy like putting a bounty out on a website owner who committed no crime can end with destructive acts that match your own pettiness.

Burl poachers are criminals. Getting caught is an occupational risk and they'll predictably just move on to the next scam rather than seek revenge. It's less predictable what an honest man would do if he ended up blacklisted by vigilantes. When responding, he may not even worry about the presence of any secret cameras or military grade laser blasting killbot national park defense grids that you can dream up.

[mdvaden]

Originally Posted by totallyawesometruthsayer

Not at all. It's always noble to expose secrets for the benefit of the masses.

Good to see you changed your mind.

That's what we are after here. Exposing the secret of the person in question for the benefit of the masses.

We do not know exactly who they are. Although their MOA and few details sort of profile them into the tightest sliver of the population. So maybe we could say we don't have the pieces that prove who they are.

But for those who do not know who they are, they can't say for certain that no crime or violation occurred. Its evident that the damage is equal to had someone gone in with a pesticide sprayer and soil compaction equipment. With so many native plants killed, its at bare minimum highly unethical. Especially since it exposes all future research rigging to damage and dislocation.

Its crystal clear that this person will completely worry about cameras. They tried to keep their messages sterile in almost every regard. They failed actually through some details I can't specify here. But their effort was strong enough to show that they would be concerned about being seen, observed or recorded anywhre related to this.

[cvolson40]

[quote=totallyawesometruthsayer;42712821]Not at all. It's always noble to expose secrets for the benefit of the masses.



Hello everyone,

I recently moved to the area and have been hiking the redwoods every weekend for the last 6 months or so. You know what the best part has been? Networking with people to learn clues and to enjoy the folklore behind these amazing trees. Sometimes in life, finding something means the end of a long dream. To check the coordinates on a website and go directly to a location reminds me of the story of how Teddy Roosevelt and the hunting trip story where the guides capture a bear and tied it to a tree for him to "hunt." That was a story that defined nobility for him. I have learned so much in these last 6 months. Had I discovered the FR site a few months ago I would have been super excited, but now I realize that excitement is only at the surface. I was more saddened by the saturation of the search.

I realize some of this world looks at the trees as only being there for our enjoyment, but our lives are a fraction of time compared to the years these trees have been alive. We have trampled the understory and destroyed the vegetation of so many trees that have access it seems like a shame to create traffic to all of the areas of these most extreme organisms. I believe their is a responsible group of people that can study and learn from these trees and then there are many trees to be shared and enjoyed by the masses. The way into this group does not come through entitlement to information, but first through education and humility. Walk through Jedediah forest and tell me that you didn't enjoy yourself because you didn't find the biggest and I'll realize you are not the type of person that deserves these wonders in your life because you can't appreciate the wonders in front of you.

Just thought I'd share - I hope my thoughts can help give a friendly perspective to those learning these same values about the redwoods.

Cheers guys!
Chad

[MarkGraham]

Originally Posted by mdvaden

Those are details I am looking at several options for. Should it be a single donor? Or several? A trust? Gifts to an account, with a promise that it either goes to a reward. And if not ... forwarded to Save the Redwoods League. The first step is seeing whether anyone wants to commit. For all I know, someone may say they want to double the request. I would gladly let someone else take the reigns and manage this too. Another more adept to coordinate it.

Wish I worked was a head ranger, plus lived in the area. But it became evident the public can know the time period the person was in certain areas from a few images. I learned from a ranger that data on individuals is retained indefinite. With access to the cameras that were in the redwood parks, plus dated security video, I think that alone could establish the ID of the person (s) in question. But a reward situation could draw in the information from an unexpected avenue.

So we can bounce this idea around outside the forum. Regarding the reply comment prior to yours, is the other now back-peddling from their "brave" or "noble" stamp of approval?

No worries here. I'm sure whoever it is ... is afraid. I think the reward option implemented for burl poachers didn't put the parks on the defense. Also, I think the hidden cameras will be a deterrent. Even more so now. I think it may not have even crossed their mind in the preparatory stages.

NPS BURL POACH REWARD LINK > $5,000 Reward For Information Leading to the Prosecution of Poachers - Redwood National and State Parks (U.S. National Park Service)

Rewards are a proven system to break down doors of silence sometimes.

The reward concept could be effective in getting someone to point out the FR/Fred person or people but the content would still remain. Then in the aggregate what has been created is highly unethical but not illegal. So if there is money collected with the intent of publicizing the person or people creating the FR/Fred content they (FR/Fred) could possibly create some kind of legal complaint involving harassment, internet stalking, doxing, etc. So if we do this it needs to be done with care and involve a lawyer.

[mdvaden]

Mark,

Several of us already know attorneys. But most likely none would be needed for the primary phase. Bare bones, only a few people in the tree community, research and parks need to know, and a handful of explorers. The ID can be passed on via an un-signed mail but with a type of note that proves to therecipient the heads-up is a tight-knit friend. But yeah, if the Los Angeles Times ran with the story down the road after a trail was in place so the education value and accountability could be launched simultaneous, I'm sure they are well-versed the the right vocabulary and legal avenues to cover stuff like this. The idea of a reward is to gain information right now. And just learning is really thick ice to walk on.

being on the Oregon landscape license board for two appointed terms was of more use than expected. Continually dealing with enforcement, accusations, fines, investigations, etc., provided some good alternate ways to handle information and maintain plenty of firewalls. The management of information was so fine tuned, we didn't even talk "business" together when 3 or more were in the men's room together at the same time. Because 3 or more was a "quorum". We continually discussed a wide range of information and matters with one of two State assistant Attorney Generals who attended most of our all-day meetings. 6 years was more than ample, but I'm thankful for the opportunity.

This was one of the more casual meetings, down in Grant's Pass, Oregon.

[OldManWinter]

I'm all in for the reward. I think putting up a $10,000 reward for revealing the identify of the FR web site owner is more than adequate to get the job done. Someone would definitley come forward and spill the beans. It's only right that those in the tree community who have worked their whole lives to protect these trees be given the right to know the identity of the person who has introduced habitat destruction to so many trees and the possible toppling of Hyperion down into the creek in a year or two.

[MarkGraham]

Mario - thanks for the details. I support the reward as well. Mark

[mdvaden]

Originally Posted by OldManWinter

I'm all in for the reward. I think putting up a $10,000 reward for revealing the identify of the FR web site owner is more than adequate to get the job done. Someone would definitley come forward and spill the beans. It's only right that those in the tree community who have worked their whole lives to protect these trees be given the right to know the identity of the person who has introduced habitat destruction to so many trees and the possible toppling of Hyperion down into the creek in a year or two.

Reward Funds Page

https://www.gofundme.com/c5kgvbtw

Now up and running.

It may even put a fire under some parks workers to dig deeper into the camera and video files, among several possible leads.

[OldManWinter]

Wow this is off to a fast start. So the person who comes forward and spills the beans and proves the identify of FR gets to keep whatever cash is in the donation fund, right?

[mdvaden]

Originally Posted by OldManWinter

Wow this is off to a fast start. So the person who comes forward and spills the beans and proves the identify of FR gets to keep whatever cash is in the donation fund, right?

That is the approximate intent. But I plan to stay in contact with a few contributors via email to incorporate their feedback outside forums, blogs, etc.. One, it has to be proof, not just a clue.

But there can be several angles we haven't seen yet. A park employee may find something on security video or gate a logs. Or frames from the cameras hidden in parks. Or a family member. I know the GOT guy's sister and brother in law turned their backs on him. Friends are sometimes not strong friends.

BTW ... If, by chance, a key resides in one photo and I can find the near exact time of year and couple that with another piece of data, I will not take any reward myself. If I can solve the puzzle, then its got to be a freebie.

At the FRs side of the matter. If they had a data deficit, there's a camera-multiplier issue to contend with in the parks that increases the risk. They really can't go anywhere to gather more data and assume they are not recorded. Already had a small chat with someone about where to strategically hide game cameras. Destinations, or routes someone is likely to pass.