How much do Canadians really dislike Americans? (move, retired)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
No i dont think every one in the USA obsesses about politics .
And many Democrat and Republicans do interact with each other, usually calling each other names and degrading each others political views. You dont notice this?you dont feel many hate their duly elected leader or think half the country are welfare bums or a certain party just wants to feed the rich more money and the other party is evidently heading toward Communism?, if you dont watch FOX or MSNBC you are missing much of the media generated conflict..
On the internet, out in public? no.
Everyone has friends and family that have different political views and the only time we get into it politically is usually a Facebook argument around election season.
Didn't read all the posts in this thread but my question is has anybody pointed out that Canada ( and Mexico) are indeed in America and are American?
That idea is in many threads on this board. Simply put, people in the US call themselves "American " since
"United Statians " most like wouldn't fly. Because of this and with ever expanding media, the rest of the world has also slowly started to call the US " America " like they do.
I remember before the internet travelling in Europe and people asking if I was " American ". I would answer no, I'm Canadian, in which they would reply " but Canada is in America".
That no longer happens. The term has changed in common usage.
Anyone with a map, does understand that " The America's " makes all of us on those continents actually Americans, but not " American's "
Some things are similar on the surface, but scratch that surface and you find a very different country. Different world view, different political system, different history ( we never had a wild west for instance ), more progressive socially and more liberal. Less fear mongering about " socialism " etc.
Totally different banking system, different and stronger labour laws, paid maternity leave, mandatory paid vacation time, gun control etc.
Things that seem so logical and valid to Canadians are major political battles in the U.S.
There are some Americans who feel very much at home in Canada because their own views are similar. These tend to be U.S. liberals.
World view? How different can the world be from up there? Banking system? I guess BMO's US subsidiaries, and TD being the 2nd most prevalent retail bank in NYC are imaginary now? Gun control? Your whole fight about the long gun registry, seems pretty similar although coming from the opposite end as our gun control debate? I mean yeah Canada is a bit different than the US, but not as radically different as you are trying to make it be.
World view? How different can the world be from up there? Banking system? I guess BMO's US subsidiaries, and TD being the 2nd most prevalent retail bank in NYC are imaginary now? Gun control? Your whole fight about the long gun registry, seems pretty similar although coming from the opposite end as our gun control debate? I mean yeah Canada is a bit different than the US, but not as radically different as you are trying to make it be.
Canada is not a superpower. Our view of our place in the world is entirely different because of that.
Our banking system in Canada IS quite different than the US. Canadian banks operating in the US are doing so under US regulation and not Canadian so your assumption that Canadian banks in the US are run the same in Canada is wrong. Here is a, albeit slightly boring video on the difference.
Gun control. The long gun registry failure issue may have played out with a similar ending that would of happened in the US, but the debate was quite different. Nowhere in the debate was the issue of hand gun ownership brought up. Canadians, by a vast majority support gun control and do NOT see ownership of guns as a right, as you do in the US. Gun violence in Canada is rare compared to the US.
A little background: I'm an American who was born and raised in Texas, went to college (university, in Canadian English) in Missouri, and is now living in Pennsylvania. I'm solidly liberal/progressive when it comes to social issues and moderate with a slight lean to the left when it comes to economic issues. I support non-interventionist foreign policy (I don't believe in "American exceptionalism" or the U.S.'s role as world police), universal health care, federal gun control, and higher taxes for higher income brackets. (I'll get back later in this post as to why all of this is relevant.)
I've been to Canada 8 times (Yukon 1, British Columbia 2, Alberta 2, Ontario 3, Quebec 2, New Brunswick 1, Prince Edward Island 1, Nova Scotia 1), and I always love visiting, anticipating the next time I'll make the trip up.
I have several Canadian friends, so obviously I've found those individuals amiable enough to be friends with them. When I've had interactions with strangers in Canada, they've tended to be friendly as well. There definitely is more of a reserved nature in Canadian personalities in general, and I like that, being an introvert myself.
Where I see the most anti-Americanism is usually in Canadian media and behind the anonymity of the internet. I find that it runs rampant, especially on the internet, and has the flavor of what could be characterized as a passive-aggressive inferiority/superiority complex—a very bipolar reaction to Americans, American culture, and the United States. While passive anti-Americanism is common in Canadian media, the aggressive form is very common in online postings.
The most gratuitously anti-American mass media that I've come across has been the Globe and Mail and CBC, so I try to avoid consuming the media from these outlets if I can, despite knowing that they are usually more sympathetic to my political lean (surprisingly, I haven't found the Toronto Star to be all that anti-American). I find it really sad that I have to do this and just as sad that when it comes to English Canada, it is Canadian conservatives these days—at least online—who are generally friendlier and more secure in themselves as Canadians than Canadian liberals and NDP supporters.
I've also found it a bit depressing that progressive people in the States (including some of my friends) have such an idealized image of Canada and Canadians but that similarly progressive people in Canada tend to look down on and stereotype all Americans as being conservative and backwards. If anything, liberals in both countries ought to be friends because of shared values. Instead, left-leaning Canadians are usually the ones who are most aggressive—at least online—about promoting their differences between their American neighbors and who make irrational claims that they are more like Europeans than they are like Americans. They will even resort to aggressively supporting the Queen not because they truly support her but because having her as head of state is just another way that Canada is different from the U.S.
I don't want to let all progressive Canadian-loving Americans off the hook, though. They are just as likely to be as guilty as conservative Americans of knowing nothing about Canada except for what they hear about from friends. (It's not like they're going to find much about Canada in our U.S. media.) This is where their idealized image of Canada and Canadians comes from and why they put Canada on a pedestal. To them, it's the mythical land of milk and honey, and if **** hits the fan here in the U.S. it's where they'll flee. Too bad they know nothing about the virulent anti-Americanism present among many people north of the border. That they don't just reinforces the fact that most Americans are not very exposed to Canada.
I don't know if I can hold it against most Americans for having this lack of knowledge. The U.S. is such a populous country, comprised of so many different regions (most of which have as many people as or more than Canada) that have their own cultural differences and vocabulary that are way more pronounced than the individual regions of Canada. Having that many people alone is going to make people less likely to know what's going on outside of their country, much less their own region.
In essence, Canada to many Americans is just another region with cultural differences and a different vocabulary, just as to someone from California, Texas is a another region with cultural differences and a different vocabulary. The catch is that the person from California will read and hear a lot about Texas in the American media but will not hear much at all about Canada (maybe aside from Rob Ford's crack cocaine scandal). Therefore, they'll probably have a negative view of Texas (misguided, I might add) and a neutral or idealized view of Canada.
Another important note is that most of Canada's population lives near the U.S. border, while comparatively little of the U.S. population lives near the Canadian border. The population that does is also usually near enough to larger cities away from the border that it'll tend to be more influenced by those larger centers of population than by what's across the 49th parallel.
I believe that anti-Americanism in Canada comes down to a few things:
The fear of being "threatened." People often exhibit negative behavior when they feel a threat to where they live. For instance, people who proudly support the American auto industry here in the States sometimes display a disgust for Asian countries because they feel that the Japanese auto industry is the reason for the decline of the Rust Belt. Similarly, they feel that China has taken away all of America's manufacturing jobs and is a threat militarily and economically, so they dislike the Chinese. As for Canada, the feeling of being threatened is historical, having been a part of the national consciousness since the War of 1812 (a war that many Americans place little importance in but which holds much larger significance across the border). Additionally, the fact that Canada only has 1/10 of the population of the U.S. means that the influence of their southern neighbor—culturally, economically, and militarily—will be heavily and inevitably felt. For some Canadians, this probably feels like a "threat" on their culture and sovereignty. Even humor from Americans at the expense of Canada may be misinterpreted by some Canadians as a threat—when it's just humor. (Just think of how many Americans poke fun at other Americans' accents and vocabulary.)
A relationship to the U.S. characterized by dual feelings of inferiority/superiority. Previous posters have described the need for many Canadians to feel like their country is "measuring up" to the U.S. and can hold its own on the world stage. On the flip side, many Canadians also believe that while Canada might not be as much of an economic prowess as the U.S., there are other things that Canada has an advantage in (gun control, a less influential military, single-payer health care, less economic inequality, higher quality of life, etc.) and that those things make automatically Canada better than the U.S. in what they believe are the only ways that matter. Here in the States, you often see this smug attitude among people from San Francisco and New York City directed at folks from places like Texas, even when there are lots of Texans who would otherwise find camaraderie in the political views of these smug folks. Unfortunately, popular images of Texas and Texans are reinforced by ignorant people, the coastal media, and the loudest and brashest Texans, just as popular images of the United States and Americans are reinforced by ignorant people, the Canadian media, and the loudest and brashest Americans.
The feeling of being ignored. Many Canadians comment on how they know a lot more about the U.S. than Americans know about Canada, without fully considering the reasons why. I can't blame them for this resentment, though, because as a Texan I know how it feels to be ignored by the New York-centric media and for people from all over the country to know nothing about where you come from, despite the fact that where I come from may have a large population and a profound importance to the U.S. economy (just as Canada has a profound importance to the U.S. economy). I believe some Canadians also feel as if people in other countries (even those in the U.K., the resident country of their head of state) don't know much about them or simply consider them to be glorified Americans. This can hurt when one's country has been trying to establish a more distinct national identity for its entire existence.
This is a well-considered and well-written post. Well done, pwumavs!
Quote:
Originally Posted by pwumavs
I'll jump in here.
A little background: I'm an American who was born and raised in Texas, went to college (university, in Canadian English) in Missouri, and is now living in Pennsylvania. I'm solidly liberal/progressive when it comes to social issues and moderate with a slight lean to the left when it comes to economic issues. I support non-interventionist foreign policy (I don't believe in "American exceptionalism" or the U.S.'s role as world police), universal health care, federal gun control, and higher taxes for higher income brackets. (I'll get back later in this post as to why all of this is relevant.)
I've been to Canada 8 times (Yukon 1, British Columbia 2, Alberta 2, Ontario 3, Quebec 2, New Brunswick 1, Prince Edward Island 1, Nova Scotia 1), and I always love visiting, anticipating the next time I'll make the trip up.
I have several Canadian friends, so obviously I've found those individuals amiable enough to be friends with them. When I've had interactions with strangers in Canada, they've tended to be friendly as well. There definitely is more of a reserved nature in Canadian personalities in general, and I like that, being an introvert myself.
Where I see the most anti-Americanism is usually in Canadian media and behind the anonymity of the internet. I find that it runs rampant, especially on the internet, and has the flavor of what could be characterized as a passive-aggressive inferiority/superiority complex—a very bipolar reaction to Americans, American culture, and the United States. While passive anti-Americanism is common in Canadian media, the aggressive form is very common in online postings.
The most gratuitously anti-American mass media that I've come across has been the Globe and Mail and CBC, so I try to avoid consuming the media from these outlets if I can, despite knowing that they are more usually sympathetic to my political lean (surprisingly, I haven't found the Toronto Star all that anti-American). I find it really sad that I have to do this and just as sad that it when it comes to English Canada, it is Canadian conservatives these days—at least online—who are generally friendlier and more secure in themselves as Canadians than Canadian liberals.
I've also found it a bit depressing that progressive people in the States (including some of my friends) have such an idealized image of Canada and Canadians but that similarly progressive people in Canada tend to look down on and stereotype all Americans as being conservative and backwards. If anything, liberals in both countries ought to be friends because of shared values. Instead, left-leaning Canadians with are usually the ones who are most aggressive—at least online—about promoting their differences between their American neighbors and who make irrational claims that they are more like Europeans than they are like Americans. They will even resort to aggressively supporting the Queen not because they truly support her but because having her as head of state is just another way that Canada is different from the U.S.
I don't want to let all progressive Canadian-loving Americans off the hook, though. They are just as likely to be as guilty as conservative Americans of knowing nothing about Canada except for what they hear about from friends. (It's not like they're going to find much about Canada in our U.S. media.) This is where their idealized image of Canada and Canadians comes from. To them, it's the mythical land of milk and honey, and if **** hits the fan here in the U.S. it's where they'll flee. Too bad they know nothing about the virulent anti-Americanism present among many people north of the border. The fact that they don't know about this just reinforces the fact that most Americans are not very exposed to Canada.
I don't know if I can hold it against most Americans for having this lack of knowledge. The U.S. is such a populous country, comprised of so many different regions (most of which have as many people as or more than Canada) that have their own cultural differences and vocabulary that are way more pronounced than the individual regions of Canada. Having that many people alone is going to make people less likely to know what's going on outside of their country, much less their own region.
In essence, Canada to many Americans is just another region with cultural differences and a different vocabulary, just as to someone from Massachusetts, Texas is a another region with cultural differences and a different vocabulary. The catch is that the person from Massachusetts will read and hear a lot about Texas in the American media but will not hear much at all about Canada (maybe aside from Rob Ford's crack cocaine scandal). Therefore, they'll probably have a negative view of Texas (misguided, I might add) and a neutral or idealized view of Canada.
Another important note is that most of Canada's population lives near the U.S. border, while comparatively little of the U.S. population lives near the Canadian border. The population that does is also usually near enough to larger cities away from the border that they'll tend to be more influenced by those larger centers of population than by what's across the 49th parallel.
I believe that anti-Americanism in Canada comes down to a few things:
The feeling of being "threatened." People often exhibit negative behavior when they feel a threat to where they live. For instance, people who proudly support the American auto industry here in the States sometimes display a disgust for Asian countries because they feel that the Japanese auto industry is the reason for the decline of the Rust Belt. Similarly, they feel that China has taken away all of America's manufacturing jobs, so they dislike the Chinese. As for Canada, the feeling of being threatened is historical, having been a part of the national consciousness since the War of 1812 (a war that many Americans place little importance in but which holds much larger significance across the border). Additionally, the fact that Canada only has 1/10 of the population of the U.S. means that the influence of their southern neighbor—culturally, economically, and militarily—will be heavily and inevitably felt. For some Canadians, this probably feels like a "threat" on their culture and sovereignty. Even humor from Americans at the expense of Canada may be misinterpreted by some Canadians as a threat—when it's just humor. (Just think of how many Americans poke fun at other Americans' accents and vocabulary.)
A relationship to the U.S. characterized by dual feelings of inferiority/superiority. Previous posters have described the need for many Canadians to feel like their country is "measuring up" to the U.S. and can hold its own on the world stage. On the flip side, many Canadians also believe that while Canada might not be as much of an economic prowess as the U.S., there are other things that Canada has an advantage in (gun control, a less influential military, single-payer health care, less economic inequality, higher quality of life, etc.) and that those things make automatically Canada better than the U.S. in what they believe are the only ways that matter. Here in the States, you often see this smug attitude among people from San Francisco and New York City directed at folks from places like Texas, even when there are lots of Texans who would otherwise find camaraderie in the political views of these smug folks. Unfortunately, popular images of Texas and Texans are reinforced by the coastal media and by the loudest and brashest Texans, just as popular images of the United States and Americans are reinforced by the Canadian media and by the loudest and brashest Americans.
The feeling of being ignored. Many Canadians comment on how they know a lot more about the U.S. than Americans know about Canada, without fully considering the reasons why. I can't blame them for this resentment, though, because as a Texan I know how it feels to be ignored by the New York-centric media and for people from all over the country to know nothing about where you come from, despite the fact that where I come from may have a large population and a profound importance to the U.S. economy (just as Canada has a profound importance to the U.S. economy). I believe some Canadians also feel as if people in other countries (even those in the U.K., the resident country of their head of state) don't know much about them or simply consider them to be glorified Americans. This can hurt when one's country has been trying to establish a more distinct national identity for its entire existence.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
