Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Statistics do not lie. You are FAR less likely to be shot in Canada.
Also handguns are SEVERELY restricted.
You can not get one unless your job requires it, you belong to a gun club ( where your bullets are kept at the club and you must travel with in directly from home to the club in a locked box ), or if you are a collector.
Nat we did talk about this already....you can get guns (and handguns) in Canada, just more hoops to go through so if someone owning one lose the plot he/she can still kill....period....
The real issue is freedom of the population of the two countries to relocate and live in both nations (a la European Union) and I believe Canada is more against this than the US for obvious reasons.
I can understand the fear of some Canadians that a much larger population in the US could overwhelm and change Canada. However I will point out the fact that most US residents who wish to move to Canada likely are progressive politically and have compatible values to Canada. I would imagine that is why they wish to move there. I think a lot of them would be folks who already live in places like Minnesota, Michigan, Upper New England or the PNW, so many of them would already be quite "Canadian like" with their lifestyles and attitudes. I think the fear that those Americans moving north would be Texans with big pickup trucks and gun racks etc is probably unfounded. Those people would stay put. I do think the folks in Canada who admire the more conservative individualistic culture of the US would be the ones heading south. I think that goes without saying though. There are also many Canadians who would love the right to move to places in the US south or California to escape the climate of Canada.
I am sure a study would be done before anything like this was considered to try and learn how many people would move from each nation, that way an informed decision could be made on both sides of the border. I am a staunch supporter of protecting the sovereignty of the US, and would also expect patriotic Canadians to protect theirs as well. However a EU style deal could be made that would do this. Each nation would retain its own foreign policy ( even though both follow a very similar policy based on NATO membership), its own domestic policy and its own social policies. Areas where we could have unity would be in currency, trade and an open border. The Europeans have it good in what they have created in the EU, it is a benefit we should work toward in North America. Over there each nation is still unique, France is still France, Germany is Germany and Britain is Britain but a British citizen can live in Italy if he wants. I think that is a cool benefit they have in the EU. Those countries are so different and have some tortured histories with each other but yet they have done it. Canada and the US are essentially the same people separated by a very old political dispute (American revolution/war of 1812). The only reason we are separate is because of the events of the late 1700s and early 1800s. Much of the political differences between the two nations is getting smaller all the time. The US is becoming quite liberal/socialist (much to my dismay) so Canadian likely don't have much to fear from a right wing US overwhelming them. I am not arguing for union, but suggesting a North American EU to be considered. The biggest difficulty in it would not be the US and Canada, but how to deal with Mexico. Mexico is a North American nation and including them would be something to look to down the road. That could only happen though once that nation dealt with its massive crime and drug problems. The economy of Mexico also has a long way to go to be modernized to the level of Canada and the US.
Nat we did talk about this already....you can get guns (and handguns) in Canada, just more hoops to go through so if someone owning one lose the plot he/she can still kill....period....
Sure. And so can somebody with a knife, a baseball bat, or a good swift kick to the head with a pair of steel-toed boots.
Guns are not bad in and of themselves. What is bad is the culture surrounding them. What are guns? Sporting goods or offensive/defensive weapons? In Canada, we have chosen the former, and we have crafted laws around that fact--shooting clubs exist, shooting competitions are held, hunting remains a popular pastime for many, Canadians have won Olympic gold in shooting sports--yet always under strict laws and rules. More hoops, yes, but many Canadian shooters have no problems with them.
Our American friends seem to have chosen the latter: Guns are for defense; or, if you're a criminal, for offense. Americans have Second Amendment rights after all, just in case their government gets out of hand, or the King of England tries to take back the wayward colonies. Of course, hunting is a popular pastime in the US also, but a check on the P&OC forum indicates that many Americans just don't feel safe if they don't have a gun in case of burglars/muggers/nutbars who shoot up movie theatres or university campuses or similar.
I think we've struck the correct compromise in Canada: Guns are not meant to shoot other people with. You do not have the right to own a gun, but as a Canadian resident, you can own one. Just not for protection, and you (and the gun) must fit certain parameters. We do have our outliers: the Parliament Hill shooter, the recent Calgary nightclub shooter, the Danzig shooter in Scarborough, Ontario, a few years ago, and so on. But compare those to what is reported from our American friends on a more frequent basis (Columbine, Virginia Tech, Sandy Hook, Brenda Ann Spencer of "I Don't Like Mondays" fame, Charles Whitman, the Bundys in Oregon, David Koresh in Waco, Squeaky Fromme, Mark David Chapman, Jerry and Joseph Kane in Arkansas, the guy who took a loaded handgun to the movies and inadvertently shot a fellow patron, etc.), and I think we're doing pretty well with so few incidents.
Last edited by ChevySpoons; 02-04-2016 at 01:11 AM..
I can understand the fear of some Canadians that a much larger population in the US could overwhelm and change Canada. However I will point out the fact that most US residents who wish to move to Canada likely are progressive politically and have compatible values to Canada.
Daniel, you may be interested in this recent item from Canada's "National Post" newspaper:
Many Americans have said, "Well, if Candidate X gets in, I'm moving to Canada," but few follow through. This item is about those who actually did jump through the immigration hoops to come to Canada and build a new life. Anyway, thought you might find it interesting, and I'd be interested in hearing your views on it.
Sure. And so can somebody with a knife, a baseball bat, or a good swift kick to the head with a pair of steel-toed boots.
Guns are not bad in and of themselves. What is bad is the culture surrounding them. What are guns? Sporting goods or offensive/defensive weapons? In Canada, we have chosen the former, and we have crafted laws around that fact--shooting clubs exist, shooting competitions are held, hunting remains a popular pastime for many, Canadians have won Olympic gold in shooting sports--yet always under strict laws and rules. More hoops, yes, but many Canadian shooters have no problems with them.
Our American friends seem to have chosen the latter: Guns are for defense; or, if you're a criminal, for offense. Americans have Second Amendment rights after all, just in case their government gets out of hand, or the King of England tries to take back the wayward colonies. Of course, hunting is a popular pastime in the US also, but a check on the P&OC forum indicates that many Americans just don't feel safe if they don't have a gun in case of burglars/muggers/nutbars who shoot up movie theatres or university campuses or similar.
I think we've struck the correct compromise in Canada: Guns are not meant to shoot other people with. You do not have the right to own a gun, but as a Canadian resident, you can own one. Just not for protection, and you (and the gun) must fit certain parameters. Compared to what is reported from our American friends, (Columbine, Virginia Tech, Sandy Hook, Brenda Ann Spencer of "I Don't Like Mondays" fame, Charles Whitman, the Bundys in Oregon, Squeaky Fromme, Mark David Chapman, Jerry and Joseph Kane in Arkansas, the guy who took a loaded handgun to the movies and inadvertently shot a fellow patron, etc.), I think we're doing pretty well.
No doubt Canadians and Americans have different values regarding guns. We Americans often get lambasted for our "gun culture", however it has been part of our nation since the beginning. Your right, we see guns not only as "sporting goods" just as yall see them but also as a means of self defense. This has always been part of the US. For 200 years we had this "gun culture" and did not have mass shootings, its only been in the past 20 years that the mass shooting thing got out of hand in the US. I don't think it has anything with our constitutional right to keep weapons, but some other problem in our society. We have a violence problem in general, and it seems to be connected to drugs and mental illness. It also is fueled by a media who gives these nutjobs too much attention for their outlandish violent behavior. One thing your right about though is the fact that we Americans do believe in the second amendment, especially in the South. Many law abiding citizens have responded to the rise in crime and violence by arming themselves. Too many people enter a home looking for drug money and do terrible things to the occupants of the home. Many of us definitely believe in using a weapon for home defense, some areas in the US do have some really scary crime. You folks are lucky in Canada to not have so many places like that. There are many reasons we have dangerous urban areas and Y'all dont but that is a whole other topic. On a more positive note most of us Americans only use a firearm on a cool crisp fall morning to harvest a deer, no different than our friends north of the border.
Many Americans have said, "Well, if Candidate X gets in, I'm moving to Canada," but few follow through. This item is about those who actually did jump through the immigration hoops to come to Canada and build a new life. Anyway, thought you might find it interesting, and I'd be interested in hearing your views on it.
Thanks for the link, interesting article. Here in the US we often get that "im moving if X is elected", but your right to say that most of it is talk. Even within the US people threaten to move between red and blue states over politics. Some do of course, but moving like that is expensive and only the very committed actually follow through. The article seems to validate some of my opinions that more left leaning US citizens would be inclined to move north. I would be interested in knowing if Canadians are doing that in reverse, are conservative Canadians moving to Texas to get away from a more liberal nation? Do they think the US is a right wing shangrala?
Some in the article and on this forum have stated the opinion that the US is very obsessed with politics, well I think that is true. As I write this Fox news is on and it has been all politics for HOURS. Our nation is far less united politically than is Canada. Half our nation is very conservative, and the other half is similar in political leaning to Canada. We have had one civil war already, and considering our deep divisions you cannot rule out the possibility of trouble in the future. (God forbid) Canada is far more stable, the US I must admit has issues in this regard. Our elections are a circus, this year especially. Many of the candidates and political nonsense is embarrassing. You Canadians are way more dignified in the way you conduct your government, we could learn a lot from you in this regard. Having said all this I will say that I am a conservative American myself and even though I may disagree with Canadian style policies in the US I do respect the system you have up there. I also like Canada and have enjoyed my visits there. I have never encountered the anti-Americanism in person, only here on CD. If a EU style agreement ever came to North American the people of both nations would have a choice between the two systems, and as a freedom loving North American I support choice. I hope those Americans in Ontario are successful in their choice to move north, and I hope their new Canadian neighbors accept them. From reading the article it sounds like they will make good Canadians.
No. I am adamantly and dare I say viscerally against such an absurd notion. Look, 3/4ths of my extended family lives in America. They are culturally, economically and after 45 years of divergence, even ethnically very different from the Canadian branch. I love them, they're my family, but they don't belong here, and I don't belong there.
Two very different cultures. If anything, it is the similarities which are superficial, not the differences.
No doubt Canadians and Americans have different values regarding guns. We Americans often get lambasted for our "gun culture", however it has been part of our nation since the beginning. Your right, we see guns not only as "sporting goods" just as yall see them but also as a means of self defense. This has always been part of the US. For 200 years we had this "gun culture" and did not have mass shootings, its only been in the past 20 years that the mass shooting thing got out of hand in the US. I don't think it has anything with our constitutional right to keep weapons, but some other problem in our society. We have a violence problem in general, and it seems to be connected to drugs and mental illness. It also is fueled by a media who gives these nutjobs too much attention for their outlandish violent behavior. One thing your right about though is the fact that we Americans do believe in the second amendment, especially in the South. Many law abiding citizens have responded to the rise in crime and violence by arming themselves. Too many people enter a home looking for drug money and do terrible things to the occupants of the home. Many of us definitely believe in using a weapon for home defense, some areas in the US do have some really scary crime. You folks are lucky in Canada to not have so many places like that. There are many reasons we have dangerous urban areas and Y'all dont but that is a whole other topic. On a more positive note most of us Americans only use a firearm on a cool crisp fall morning to harvest a deer, no different than our friends north of the border.
The two nations were parallel in their gun culture at the beginning and Canada remained a frontier longer than the U.S. and it could very well be that our divergence and single difference was manifested in the creation of a National Police force (NWMP) back then.
I've spent considerable hours in discussion with American friends regarding the 2nd amendment and the firearm's proliferation in the U.S. and have consigned myself to the agreement now that the U.S. has no choice now but to play out it's hand until a sea change occurs, either in thoughts on personal ownership or violent crimes, before a resolution of any import will occur.
Having spent a considerable portion of my youth traipsing the Pacific Northwest hunting alone with a sporterized Lee Enfield .303 and a back-up heirloom Webley .455 break-open wheel gun (dating myself) for weeks at a time while on leave from the Navy; I thoroughly commiserate with firearm ownership for sporting reasons; be they actual hunting or simply family oriented range time. In those wonderful times, I would enter a remote logging camp, leave the guns on the porch of the cook-house trailer and trade a deer haunch for a hot meal. Any large game was hunted and dispatched using nothing more technical than the flip-up range adjustable peep-sight and how close I was to the nearest reservation or logging operation to get quick help with the butchering and carry-out. Logging camp cooks and natives loved me as they got the meat!
Canada will gradually emulate the U.S. as far as violent crime is concerned, we have no choice and all historical indicators make that a moot point. How we deal with that issue in light of the fact criminals have ready access to guns from the endless supply south of us that; akin to your drugs and illegal aliens, seem impossible to staunch the flow coming north.
On the political front; I've taken note of our becoming more strident and less respectful in our political discourse and can only wonder to what degree a constant exposure to the American MSM in Canada has patterned that. I think it would be disingenuous to suggest America take the entire blame for our becoming bellicose and disrespectful whereas politics are concerned because, at my advanced age I've noticed that trend invading our daily lives across the board.
As has oft been repeated on here; in most things non-theoretical we are more alike than different.
The two nations were parallel in their gun culture at the beginning and Canada remained a frontier longer than the U.S. and it could very well be that our divergence and single difference was manifested in the creation of a National Police force (NWMP) back then.
I've spent considerable hours in discussion with American friends regarding the 2nd amendment and the firearm's proliferation in the U.S. and have consigned myself to the agreement now that the U.S. has no choice now but to play out it's hand until a sea change occurs, either in thoughts on personal ownership or violent crimes, before a resolution of any import will occur.
Having spent a considerable portion of my youth traipsing the Pacific Northwest hunting alone with a sporterized Lee Enfield .303 and a back-up heirloom Webley .455 break-open wheel gun (dating myself) for weeks at a time while on leave from the Navy; I thoroughly commiserate with firearm ownership for sporting reasons; be they actual hunting or simply family oriented range time. In those wonderful times, I would enter a remote logging camp, leave the guns on the porch of the cook-house trailer and trade a deer haunch for a hot meal. Any large game was hunted and dispatched using nothing more technical than the flip-up range adjustable peep-sight and how close I was to the nearest reservation or logging operation to get quick help with the butchering and carry-out. Logging camp cooks and natives loved me as they got the meat!
Canada will gradually emulate the U.S. as far as violent crime is concerned, we have no choice and all historical indicators make that a moot point. How we deal with that issue in light of the fact criminals have ready access to guns from the endless supply south of us that; akin to your drugs and illegal aliens, seem impossible to staunch the flow coming north.
On the political front; I've taken note of our becoming more strident and less respectful in our political discourse and can only wonder to what degree a constant exposure to the American MSM in Canada has patterned that. I think it would be disingenuous to suggest America take the entire blame for our becoming bellicose and disrespectful whereas politics are concerned because, at my advanced age I've noticed that trend invading our daily lives across the board.
As has oft been repeated on here; in most things non-theoretical we are more alike than different.
I hope you are wrong though I fear you may be right.
Respectfully BruSan, I disagree that in most things non-theoretical we are more alike than different. For instance, in the most liberal state, Massachusetts, in practise, things are very different than they are here. Ideologically is where we are the same. In Greater Boston, you can't plant a tree in your front yard without consulting the tree warden and getting a permit. In Ontario we pay lip service to caring how the less-fortunate are treated but in reality the welfare stipend for a single person is like $600 a month. Compare that to Section 8, generational welfare, food stamps and having the government pay your 2 grand monthly rent. We have subsidized housing (TCHC) but it's dilapidated and falling apart from neglect. The rent is rent-controlled and if you can make the maximum for several consecutive months (8 years ago it was $800 in Scarborough/East York), you have to move out of the apartment and make room for a poorer person. Food bank usage is high some years, contribution to them is voluntary from the populace and the federal government will not institute anything else to help. In Canada we SAY we respect multiculturalism but in practise anyone born here or who lives here long enough will inevitably revert to the same bland TV accent, including the immigrants. Compare that to Boston's regional accents, like the Southies and the Brahmin (who are, to be fair, now basically extinct).
Income inequality is much higher too and don't get me started on racial tensions. Canadians have always been less racist than Americans, since the 1950's and on: Majority accepts mixed marriages. One of the largest cities in Canada has a Muslim mayor. Be honest; could you EVER see that happening in America while Muslims are still a demographic minority? We had Little Mosque on the Prairie for years and they couldn't even have a reality show about a Muslim family without public uproar and TLC having to cancel it in the States.
Even the hate crime statistics are reversed, with black Americans committing more hate crimes than white Americans and minorities in Canada largely (almost uniformly) being on the receiving end of hate crimes which always spark outrage because they just want to fit in to the dominant culture and any normal-thinking person can see that.
The gun problem, where you can walk in and buy them in a freakin' Walmart is just ONE of the many differences in culture. Even your liberals are different. They are far more extreme. Hear me when I say that the open communists who are prevalent on uni campuses in your ivy-league schools would not fit in here.
And I don't see how amalgamating with Americans would help Canadians. We would lose the ability to devalue our currency (see: Spain for the problems this can cause) and if 85% of our exports are going to America, we would then lose our largest trading partner & in the interim become essentially a communist state, producing and exporting most of our goods from one coast to another. How is this good for competition? We can already see what that has done for our wireless consumers in Canada!
To say that I vehemently disagree with the basic premise of this thread would be a pretty large understatement.
Last edited by torontocheeka; 02-04-2016 at 11:27 AM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Of course, hunting is a popular pastime in the US also, but a check on the P&OC forum indicates that many Americans just don't feel safe if they don't have a gun in case of burglars/muggers/nutbars who shoot up movie theatres or university campuses or similar.
