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I can understand the fear of some Canadians that a much larger population in the US could overwhelm and change Canada.
I can tell you from my personal experience living in both countries....some Americans always talking about moving to Canada but actually never put any effort to do it...mainly it's just dinner/coffee shop talk....of the "If Bush get re-elected I will move to Canada" crowd I personally knew, no one even tried.
My social circle is college educated/graduate professionals fairly liberal in some of their views...exactly the supposed ideal ground for the "move up north" movement.
I personally heard of only one case of an individual (never met him, the uncle of one of my friends) from California moving to Victoria because of concerns about the political direction of the country after Bush re-election......by the way I heard not long ago that he's back....
Up north instead I met quite few Canadians that actively tried or still try to move to move to the US, some were able to do it others did meet immigration roadblocks
This is the difference...I suspect Canada would be more against a open border arrangement for fear of losing even more talent.
Last edited by saturno_v; 02-04-2016 at 01:00 PM..
The gun problem, where you can walk in and buy them in a freakin' Walmart is just ONE of the many differences in culture.
...an emotional rant that does not actually mean anything....in the US some Walmart stores (not all of them) are licensed firearm dealers...not different than a gun shop or any other sporting goods stores.
Firearms are locked, under surveillance and the desk is always manned......and you have to fill up the same paperwork....actually is even worse....if you make a mistake in your first attempt at filling up your form, no correction are allowed and you have to go home for the day (two stores I know had this policy and I'm sure it's a Walmart policy) where other gun stores allow you to fill up a new form.
Canada and America already have that arrangement with the upside for Canada being that Canada has managed to avoid becoming like America's insane gong show that we see happening there today. Maybe the author was thinking of the cooperation that already exists between Canada and America when he wrote The Anglosphere Challenge.
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Yes, I think the current level of cooperation is about right.
In the meantime, the border does have some advantages. Canada is spared from U.S. politics. On the other hand, the USA is spared from one particular issue-the status of Quebec.
Last edited by Tim Randal Walker; 02-04-2016 at 01:43 PM..
Nat we did talk about this already....you can get guns (and handguns) in Canada, just more hoops to go through so if someone owning one lose the plot he/she can still kill....period....
Yes I thought we did. If I remember correctly you lost that argument. I seem to remember Chevy, the lawyer, explaining exactly what I said in regards to handgun. You can NOT get a hand gun in Canada for protection. Only for the reasons quoted from the RCMP site.
Your point that some how since a person CAN be shot in Canada, that that somehow equates to being the same as in the US.
Once again, THE CHANCES OF BEING SHOT IN CANADA ARE LESS THAN IN THE US.
You can't argue with numbers OR the regulations that i've posted over and over again. Did you even read them?
I think people don't realize guns have a a part of Canadian culture too for a long time. I don't know, we don't have the history or revolution so we're not as passionate I guess. People used guns to hunt, and it was needed for survival.
Yes I though we did. If I remember correctly you lost that argument. I seem to remember Chevy, the lawyer, explaining exactly what I said in regards to handgun. You can NOT get a hand gun in Canada for protection. Only for the reasons quoted from the RCMP site.
Your point that some how since a person CAN be shot in Canada, that that somehow equates to being the same as in the US.
Once again, THE CHANCES OF BEING SHOT IN CANADA ARE LESS THAN IN THE US.
You can't argue with numbers.
He isn't arguing with numbers. He said that there are specific groups of people who commit gun crimes in America. If you are a white person, your chance of ever being shot in America is about the same as in Canada. If you are a 20 year old African-American gang member then you are more likely to get shot in the US than in Canada. The reason Canada is "safer" is because it has a lot less young African American gang members. It isn't because of government or anything like that, even though it makes us feel superior to say it. If Aboriginals were 15% of the population instead of 3%, our violent crime rate would be like that in the US. Saturno is just dumping some ice on these myths and exposing how they are twisted in a certain way that supports Canadians nationalism. It only supports our nationalism that shows Canada as doing something better, even when it has nothing to do with who's government is better and everything to with demographics and history.
Quote:
Originally Posted by torontocheeka
Respectfully BruSan, I disagree that in most things non-theoretical we are more alike than different. For instance, in the most liberal state, Massachusetts, in practise, things are very different than they are here. Ideologically is where we are the same. In Greater Boston, you can't plant a tree in your front yard without consulting the tree warden and getting a permit. In Ontario we pay lip service to caring how the less-fortunate are treated but in reality the welfare stipend for a single person is like $600 a month. Compare that to Section 8, generational welfare, food stamps and having the government pay your 2 grand monthly rent. We have subsidized housing (TCHC) but it's dilapidated and falling apart from neglect. The rent is rent-controlled and if you can make the maximum for several consecutive months (8 years ago it was $800 in Scarborough/East York), you have to move out of the apartment and make room for a poorer person. Food bank usage is high some years, contribution to them is voluntary from the populace and the federal government will not institute anything else to help. In Canada we SAY we respect multiculturalism but in practise anyone born here or who lives here long enough will inevitably revert to the same bland TV accent, including the immigrants. Compare that to Boston's regional accents, like the Southies and the Brahmin (who are, to be fair, now basically extinct).
Income inequality is much higher too and don't get me started on racial tensions. Canadians have always been less racist than Americans, since the 1950's and on: Majority accepts mixed marriages. One of the largest cities in Canada has a Muslim mayor. Be honest; could you EVER see that happening in America while Muslims are still a demographic minority? We had Little Mosque on the Prairie for years and they couldn't even have a reality show about a Muslim family without public uproar and TLC having to cancel it in the States.
Even the hate crime statistics are reversed, with black Americans committing more hate crimes than white Americans and minorities in Canada largely (almost uniformly) being on the receiving end of hate crimes which always spark outrage because they just want to fit in to the dominant culture and any normal-thinking person can see that.
The gun problem, where you can walk in and buy them in a freakin' Walmart is just ONE of the many differences in culture. Even your liberals are different. They are far more extreme. Hear me when I say that the open communists who are prevalent on uni campuses in your ivy-league schools would not fit in here.
And I don't see how amalgamating with Americans would help Canadians. We would lose the ability to devalue our currency (see: Spain for the problems this can cause) and if 85% of our exports are going to America, we would then lose our largest trading partner & in the interim become essentially a communist state, producing and exporting most of our goods from one coast to another. How is this good for competition? We can already see what that has done for our wireless consumers in Canada!
To say that I vehemently disagree with the basic premise of this thread would be a pretty large understatement.
Sorry, I have to say something. This rant is precisely why even the most reasonable EU type arrangement will never happen. As this rant shows many Canadians (many) have bought into propaganda hook line and sinker and many have been indoctrinated with an almost hilarious level of anti-American nonsense. It's not so much that they think the US is a lot crappier and more dangerous than it really is, it's that their mind is completely closed off yet they claim to be tolerant, and will find any evidence that will support whatever conclusion they want to be true (Torontocheeka). Half of these people saying "Americans are like X and Canadians are like Y" conveniently forget that Quebec is practically another country, and once you take Quebec out of the US vs Canada comparison you are left with world views that are extremely similar. Canadians look a lot more liberal only thanks to Quebec, but the truth is that very few non-Quebecois ever associate with French Canadians during their lifetime and know almost nothing about us as a society. Until it's time to make Canada look different from America and then all the sudden these anglos use Quebec is used as proof of Canada's tolerance, diversity and bilingualism (as opposed to the racist, diversity-hating Americans )...It's almost always brainwashed "leftist" Canadians who make no effort to know the French Canadian province next door but claim to be "multicultural" simply because we exist. By the way I'm not pro-American or anti-Canada, but I can see how completely indoctrinated and biased against Americans many anglo Canadians are when it comes to discussing Americans in any capacity.
There are many legitimate arguments that could be made against the two countries becoming one, but imo the gun argument is a weak one. Not everyone in the US has a gun or is a gun fanatic and not every where in the US has a problem with crime. It is amazing to me how some people on here can be so quick to defend others, call people racist and yet so quick to **** on Americans and make generalizations about them. Seems very hypocritical to me.
I would be against the countries becoming one single country, but I don't see why we couldn't have a North American union. If they could do it in Europe among countries with different languages, cultures and traditions, countries that in the last century have been enemies, why can't we? Why can't we have a more open border with a our friend and neighbor?
I think people don't realize guns have a a part of Canadian culture too for a long time. I don't know, we don't have the history or revolution so we're not as passionate I guess. People used guns to hunt, and it was needed for survival.
The US is so different too. The US has one of had the handful of truly successful revolutions to ever happen, and they are the only colonial society that successfully gained independence and became a successful country. They also were used as slave factories by the British (which the British banned in Britain proper). Because of our climate Canada is the only place in North or South America that does not suffer from these consequences and does not really have a population of blacks except for those who have recently immigrated. No wonder we are so peaceful compared to the others. The really nationalistic "leftist" Canadians seem to willfully ignore all of this so that they can feel superior for a moment and support the highly subjective myth that the Canadian government is superior to America's. That's what bothers me is that we can't even have objective conversations because so many Canadians buy into the exaggerations that the US is this horrible place and Canada is the improved version of it. Banning guns isn't going to erase slavery and the things that colonialism did to their society because the people doing all of the killing are black gang members who buy guns illegally.
Never underestimate the media, which portrays the reason for America's higher violent crime rate on rednecks, legal guns, Walmart, and republicans. The scary part is how many people believe that this is true. You could remove all of the rednecks, legal guns, Walmart, and Republicans from the US and the gun violence rate would be even higher than it currently is. I hate guns and am not pro-gun but I hate how "leftist" Canadians attempt to say that the answer is simple (ban guns!) when it is a much ore complicated issue with deep social and history based roots that go beyond laws. I don't know, sometimes the ignorance I see from those around me (the ones claiming to be so tolerant and enlightened)....leads me to feel like I am really embarrassed to call myself Canadian.
The US is so different too. The US has one of had the handful of truly successful revolutions to ever happen, and they are the only colonial society that successfully gained independence and became a successful country. They also were used as slave factories by the British (which the British banned in Britain proper). Because of our climate Canada is the only place in North or South America that does not suffer from these consequences and does not really have a population of blacks except for those who have recently immigrated. No wonder we are so peaceful compared to the others. The really nationalistic "leftist" Canadians seem to willfully ignore all of this so that they can feel superior for a moment and support the highly subjective myth that the Canadian government is superior to America's. That's what bothers me is that we can't even have objective conversations because so many Canadians buy into the exaggerations that the US is this horrible place and Canada is the improved version of it. Banning guns isn't going to erase slavery and the things that colonialism did to their society because the people doing all of the killing are black gang members who buy guns illegally.
Never underestimate the media, which portrays the reason for America's higher violent crime rate on rednecks, legal guns, Walmart, and republicans. The scary part is how many people believe that this is true. You could remove all of the rednecks, legal guns, Walmart, and Republicans from the US and the gun violence rate would be even higher than it currently is. I hate guns and am not pro-gun but I hate how "leftist" Canadians attempt to say that the answer is simple (ban guns!) when it is a much ore complicated issue with deep social and history based roots that go beyond laws. I don't know, sometimes the ignorance I see from those around me (the ones claiming to be so tolerant and enlightened)....leads me to feel like I am really embarrassed to call myself Canadian.
Aaaah; up to your usual pandering I see.
How about linking to a quote somewhere of a Canadian suggesting banning guns in the U.S. would immediately solve a problem, any problem.
Canadians of all stripes are well aware of the societal problems the U.S. faces as well as their origins and none that I know have ever suggested the banning of firearms would erase any of those.
You are willfully conflating our desire to maintain a society in Canada where handguns are not needed for self protection with any suggestion an absence of firearms would magically solve any of the moral and ethical problems facing either the U.S. OR Canada.
The 'viewed ignorance' you speak of would lessen considerably if you spent less time in front of your mirror preening.
You should be more embarrassed over your silly pandering sucking up than you should be over the admittedly rather strange concept of walking around calling yourself a Canadian.......er,...do you really do that?
Respectfully BruSan, I disagree that in most things non-theoretical we are more alike than different. For instance, in the most liberal state, Massachusetts, in practise, things are very different than they are here. Ideologically is where we are the same. In Greater Boston, you can't plant a tree in your front yard without consulting the tree warden and getting a permit. In Ontario we pay lip service to caring how the less-fortunate are treated but in reality the welfare stipend for a single person is like $600 a month. Compare that to Section 8, generational welfare, food stamps and having the government pay your 2 grand monthly rent. We have subsidized housing (TCHC) but it's dilapidated and falling apart from neglect. The rent is rent-controlled and if you can make the maximum for several consecutive months (8 years ago it was $800 in Scarborough/East York), you have to move out of the apartment and make room for a poorer person. Food bank usage is high some years, contribution to them is voluntary from the populace and the federal government will not institute anything else to help. In Canada we SAY we respect multiculturalism but in practise anyone born here or who lives here long enough will inevitably revert to the same bland TV accent, including the immigrants. Compare that to Boston's regional accents, like the Southies and the Brahmin (who are, to be fair, now basically extinct).
Income inequality is much higher too and don't get me started on racial tensions. Canadians have always been less racist than Americans, since the 1950's and on: Majority accepts mixed marriages. One of the largest cities in Canada has a Muslim mayor. Be honest; could you EVER see that happening in America while Muslims are still a demographic minority? We had Little Mosque on the Prairie for years and they couldn't even have a reality show about a Muslim family without public uproar and TLC having to cancel it in the States.
Oh, no. Not the "Canada is less racist than the US" thing again:
BTW, I can't speak for Boston, but I've lived in Metro Detroit and Metro Nashville. Never heard of having to obtain a permit from any "warden" to be able to plant a tree on one's property. We've planted several trees on our properties. Haven't been arrested yet.
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