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Why poke a stick in an ant nest? Not really adding anything to the discussion.
Australia is desirable because, well, it's desirable as the "lucky country". Beautiful place, friendly people, nice climate. Most of Canada's climate isn't as sought after by most immigrants.
I do agree with the posts that state that the US is more selective about non-familial immigrants. And even with those bringing over their aunts and uncles, etc. it can take 10-20 years or more to do so due to the country quotas.
While the US has a lot of H-1B and L-1B visa holders, they are NOT immigrant visas. These holders are permitted to seek permanent residence, but have to be sponsored by their employer, or be sponsored by a spouse. The wait can also be several years just to get through the basic hurdles that lead to an adjustment of status. There is then a 5 year wait to apply for citizenship (3 if by marriage). Australia is a lot easier, I believe it's 2 years after PR status.
Not having gone through the process to become a landed immigrant in Canada I am not 100% sure of the difficulty, but I know that it does take a certain # of days (4 years worth) and time prior to permanent residence counts towards this number at a reduced rate.
Both parties in Canada have reduced the number of annual family class Visas being issued since 2010.
And excellent point about Australia. As if beautiful people and sandy beaches has absolutely no bearing on why people would want to live there.
Some of these people are too much in their willful ignorance.
That isn't even close to true. The US is suredly the most difficult place to immigrate in the western world and also the #1 destination. Canada is often a background plan. I have even been in the US and seen the Canadian government advertising to potential immigrants who didn't make the cut that they should consider coming to Canada where they are far more likely to be accepted.
The government even advertises in the US to try to snatch the rejects who don't make it onto Team USA. That like picking up the US's table scraps.
As you can tell I think we are in major need of immigration reform.
Not sure how this is incompatible with anything I have said. I myself pointed out that Kenney's immigration strategy was only either skilled workers under certain qualifying categories, or rich people with start-up money being allowed in. Of course he would try and court those same people.
The thing that keeps me around in the Canadian forum is the incredible self delusion some people have on this board.
Canada is even less desirable than Australia among professional immigrants in my experience....some of the reason some immigrants did pick Canada over Australia is because of the closeness to the US...others hope to make it just a springboard to come to the US.
Again, anecdote does not = data. Just because I know a few professional Brits who chose to move to Toronto because America is too dangerous and the women are too fat doesn't mean that America has a problem attracting young Anglo immigrants. It's getting pretty silly when "in my experience" is being used as an argument piece.
Why poke a stick in an ant nest? Not really adding anything to the discussion.
Australia is desirable because, well, it's desirable as the "lucky country". Beautiful place, friendly people, nice climate. Most of Canada's climate isn't as sought after by most immigrants.
I do agree with the posts that state that the US is more selective about non-familial immigrants. And even with those bringing over their aunts and uncles, etc. it can take 10-20 years or more to do so due to the country quotas.
While the US has a lot of H-1B and L-1B visa holders, they are NOT immigrant visas. These holders are permitted to seek permanent residence, but have to be sponsored by their employer, or be sponsored by a spouse. The wait can also be several years just to get through the basic hurdles that lead to an adjustment of status. There is then a 5 year wait to apply for citizenship (3 if by marriage). Australia is a lot easier, I believe it's 2 years after PR status.
Not having gone through the process to become a landed immigrant in Canada I am not 100% sure of the difficulty, but I know that it does take a certain # of days (4 years worth) and time prior to permanent residence counts towards this number at a reduced rate.
Mark I don't think it's poking a stick at an ants nest, if I may explain why. The level of delusion that many (most) Canadians have about Canada vs. the rest of the world is staggering. It is an overtly self congratulatory discussion most of the time.
Most Canadians don't know that 2/3 of Canadians were against multiculturalism when Trudeau forced it upon them in 1972. Now our history has been revised to be a cuddly, less racist version of America that has always been a rainbow of ethnicities when we originally a British-French country that was explicity anti-visible minorities. Now young Canadians argue about the multiculturalist history of our country when no such history existed until it was forced on us against the will of a strong majority. Look, I'm not necessarily for or against it but this is one example of the delusion.
I don't know if you live in the US, but we are often told about how great everything is in Canada and how the US is falling apart. In reality there are more jobs in the US, better jobs, and more opportunities for promotion. This is why a guy like Obama makes it in the US. In Canada you would never have heard of him because he would probably be a low level office worker. But we don't like to talk about this, instead we deflect the truth about how we lure Egyptian PhD's with the premise of living in an American type environment with plenty opportunity, but he falls for the trap and winds updriving our taxis and be our garbagemen.
We are bombarded with "studies" showing we are the best country in the world according to some unknown institution where the measure something subjective like happiness or quality of life. There is a constant PR campaign by the media that reminds us how great Canada is. Read posters like TorontoCheeka and you get a level of the delusion and ingrainted (learned) prejudices, and I would say she is quite typical of under 40 Canadians who believe wholeheartedly that the US is a racist cove of white oppression but in Canada racism is a done deal. Meanwhile visibile minorities are basically background decoration to show how not racist we are, but they rarely find true success like they do in the US.
If I see what Saturno sees it's that a lot of Canadians are completely deluded and you have a lot of Americans who are unhappy for whatever reason and jump in to promote Canada as the Holy Land when we really have the same problems as the US, as well as others. It's harder make ends meet here let alone get a job and prices are much higher. No, it's not the US, and Americans who want to "escape" to Canada wind up extremely disappointed (visiting is not living in a place) and the hardworking third worlders lured by these people's fake promises who end up in Canada usually end up washing windows even if they have a master's degree. I am tired of Canada being given this image as a grass is greener paradise when it's a false lie and I usually don't even recognize the country people are describing anymore because it goes so far into fantasy land. I am glad I am born and raised here but someone has to say something.
Btw I did like your posts earlier, but I am skeptical that average people are better off in Canada. Actually I don't believe it. I say the bottom 10% is better off in Canada thanks to a wider safety net, but the other 90% would be better off or the same. The crap about "free" healthcare and tolerant, polite people is grossly exaggerated. I have a lot of things to say about the US, but the way people construct an image of Canada as a better version of America is often so deceptive that something truthful has to be said.
Well that's interesting considering the many professionals I personally know who've been rejected, the most recent an Irish immigration hopeful who also had his employer willing to sponsor him and was working as an IT manager; he is now living with his Canadian girlfriend in Singapore.
I will say that if you can manage to accrue enough consecutive years in the country (3) you can apply for P.R. based on this, (a reason to pay for the student visa, I suppose), it's sort of a back-door way in, but the same can be said for the US or they wouldn't have a situation where 11 million illegals are being offered amnesty.
I'm glad for you that the Canadian government had the ill foresight to invite in a gun enthusiast with disdain for the country, however, as they say, anecdote /=/ data.
#1 If your friend has been rejected it means that he is not that good at what it does and probably cannot prove his experience enough to satisfy immigration officials....I did work with IT professionals (IT is my line of work) that were marginal at best in their expertise and still managed to get trough...again it took me 3 months and no interview...and I do not have an Ivy League education for sure.
Even during the "Harper years" I met several people that managed to get their Canadian PR....none of them education heavy hitters (2 without even a bachelor degree)...including waiters and sales associates.....all these people could not even dream to get a US immigrant visa in their circumstances.
PB said it best, Canada gets who cannot make it into the US
#2 Where did you read that I have "disdain for Canada"?? And in terms of gun ownership ,Canada is almost in the top 10 (#12) so quite a few gun enthusiasts int eh Great True North
Quote:
Just because I know a few professional Brits who chose to move to Toronto because America is too dangerous
Your professional Brit friends probably could not make it into US, they did not chose Canada in the first place..... You know, when you cannot get something then you say is not good....
Again, anecdote does not = data. Just because I know a few professional Brits who chose to move to Toronto because America is too dangerous and the women are too fat doesn't mean that America has a problem attracting young Anglo immigrants. It's getting pretty silly when "in my experience" is being used as an argument piece.
On one hand you have a guy who has lived in both the US and Canada and been an immigrant in both and (correct if wrong) used to believe the hype about Canada.
On the other hand there is you, a militant ideologue and has traveled to the US before. Who is more credible?
I would be skeptical you are from Canada if I haven't seen so many people here who are brainwashed the same way.
On one hand you have a guy who has lived in both the US and Canada and been an immigrant in both and (correct if wrong) used to believe the hype about Canada.
On the other hand there is you, a militant ideologue and has traveled to the US before. Who is more credible?
I would be skeptical you are from Canada if I haven't seen so many people here who are brainwashed the same way.
I've spent entire summers there given that my father was working as a CFO for a company in the tristate area by the name of AEP before retiring. Even prior to that I'd spend weeks at a time there simply because 3/4th's of my extended family lives there.
His opinion is that the US is better. That is not my experience, particularly as a minority and as a woman who has had to fear for my life and personal safety in that country. His opinion is not more valid than mine.
Your only motive is to "stick it to the Anglos" which is a bit sad and pathetic. Nevertheless, you are also entitled to yours.
If Canadians want national sovereignty and DON'T want to be amalgamated with the US, why can't those purporting to be all about "rights as individuals to live their lives as they see fit" be respected by those making such statements?
We don't want to be Americans, or more like Americans. Attempting to browbeat us into submission is not going to change that. Maybe try getting over it already?
Mark I don't think it's poking a stick at an ants nest, if I may explain why. The level of delusion that many (most) Canadians have about Canada vs. the rest of the world is staggering. It is an overtly self congratulatory discussion most of the time.
Most Canadians don't know that 2/3 of Canadians were against multiculturalism when Trudeau forced it upon them in 1972. Now our history has been revised to be a cuddly, less racist version of America that has always been a rainbow of ethnicities when we originally a British-French country that was explicity anti-visible minorities. Now young Canadians argue about the multiculturalist history of our country when no such history existed until it was forced on us against the will of a strong majority. Look, I'm not necessarily for or against it but this is one example of the delusion.
I don't know if you live in the US, but we are often told about how great everything is in Canada and how the US is falling apart. In reality there are more jobs in the US, better jobs, and more opportunities for promotion. This is why a guy like Obama makes it in the US. In Canada you would never have heard of him because he would probably be a low level office worker. But we don't like to talk about this, instead we deflect the truth about how we lure Egyptian PhD's with the premise of living in an American type environment with plenty opportunity, but he falls for the trap and winds updriving our taxis and be our garbagemen.
We are bombarded with "studies" showing we are the best country in the world according to some unknown institution where the measure something subjective like happiness or quality of life. There is a constant PR campaign by the media that reminds us how great Canada is. Read posters like TorontoCheeka and you get a level of the delusion and ingrainted (learned) prejudices, and I would say she is quite typical of under 40 Canadians who believe wholeheartedly that the US is a racist cove of white oppression but in Canada racism is a done deal. Meanwhile visibile minorities are basically background decoration to show how not racist we are, but they rarely find true success like they do in the US.
If I see what Saturno sees it's that a lot of Canadians are completely deluded and you have a lot of Americans who are unhappy for whatever reason and jump in to promote Canada as the Holy Land when we really have the same problems as the US, as well as others. It's harder make ends meet here let alone get a job and prices are much higher. No, it's not the US, and Americans who want to "escape" to Canada wind up extremely disappointed (visiting is not living in a place) and the hardworking third worlders lured by these people's fake promises who end up in Canada usually end up washing windows even if they have a master's degree. I am tired of Canada being given this image as a grass is greener paradise when it's a false lie and I usually don't even recognize the country people are describing anymore because it goes so far into fantasy land. I am glad I am born and raised here but someone has to say something.
Btw I did like your posts earlier, but I am skeptical that average people are better off in Canada. Actually I don't believe it. I say the bottom 10% is better off in Canada thanks to a wider safety net, but the other 90% would be better off or the same. The crap about "free" healthcare and tolerant, polite people is grossly exaggerated. I have a lot of things to say about the US, but the way people construct an image of Canada as a better version of America is often so deceptive that something truthful has to be said.
+1
Also, I met quite few people living in Canada that "have to like Canada" because simply they have no where else to go.
Take our friend Torontocheka Brit friends....they probably cannot get into the US in the first place.
Another anecdote here: my family and I immigrated to the US when I was a child. Last year, when I told my mom we should have moved to Canada instead, she laughed and told me that all of her dumbest friends from her med school ended up there, XD!
I suppose the rationale is that if you're in a position where you could move to any country you want to and you know you'd be able to thrive in any of them because of your talent/skills, why would you choose any country other than the US? That's where all the money, status, and power is. I personally vehemently disagree with that mentality, but it exists.
It's a shame. I really do think that Canada (among other countries) is unfairly overlooked or used as a stepping stone to the US. Maybe the US offers the best standard of living for the rich, but I don't think that's the case for the average citizen, not to mention the fact that being a US citizen means being forced to contribute to its wars and military.
#1 If your friend has been rejected it means that he is not that good at what it does and probably cannot prove his experience enough to satisfy immigration officials....I did work with IT professionals (IT is my line of work) that were marginal at best in their expertise and still managed to get trough...again it took me 3 months and no interview...and I do not have an Ivy League education for sure.
Even during the "Harper years" I met several people that managed to get their Canadian PR....none of them education heavy hitters (2 without even a bachelor degree)...including waiters and sales associates.....all these people could not even dream to get a US immigrant visa in their circumstances.
PB said it best, Canada gets who cannot make it into the US
#2 Where did you read that I have "disdain for Canada"?? And in terms of gun ownership ,Canada is almost in the top 10 (#12) so quite a few gun enthusiasts int eh Great True North
Your professional Brit friends probably could not make it into US, they did not chose Canada in the first place..... You know, when you cannot get something then you say is not good....
You literally cannot accept that there are any individuals in the world who do not choose to live in America, do not want to be further enmeshed with America, or did not attempt to prior to moving elsewhere. And yet, we are the delusional and arrogant ones.
K. If you say so.
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