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Frankly, most GM divisions except trucks appear to be rearranging the deck chairs on the sinking ship at this point. None of them seem to have any real kind of a plan. Too many models, too similar, mostly ugly, poor brand definition.
The only "insult" in my post was to say that someone who bought a car based on its EMBLEM was, well, stupid. But since I can't imagine anyone actually DOING that, I didn't insult anyone. I don't know why you took it that way.
Um, I work in academia and I've taught courses on advertising (and actually include sections on advertising in a lot of my other classes too -- it's one of my favorite topics). So I understand the power of branding, symbolism, etc. What I was disagreeing with is what seemed to me to be your insistence on blaming Buick's EMBLEM for its woes. That seemed to me to be rather overstated.
I really did not mean to insult you (or anyone), and if I did, I do apologize for that.
You teach courses in advertising? Sound interesting; maybe I should sign up. I've gotten angry responses on the City-Data forum in the past when I've questioned the effectiveness of multiple requests for money from non-profits. Dad died in 2014, mom in 2020. In each case, I promptly notified the DMA of their deaths. When requests for donations would show up in the mail, I would mark "Deceased", and the date of death, and mail them back. Despite this, I got a request from a non-profit for dad this Christmas. I know I've returned their mailings in the past.
As far as changing the Buick emblem, do you remember the Big Boy vote of 1985? The vote was overwhelming to keep the mascot. The vote was only about changing the mascot, not changing the menu. Changing a well-know mascot (or emblem) is fraught with peril.
And as far as Buick being an old person's car, I'm having trouble finding accurate data. It looks like the average age of the Buick owner has been decreasing over the years, though. Anyway, the average new car buyer has an income of $80,000, which implies an older, wealthier demographic, limiting the value of going after the youth market. Also, a large proportion of Buick sales are in China, where it is a high-status vehicle.
Honda is living off of their former reputation. I'd give them no more consideration than I would a GM vehicle nameplate. I do appreciate their 2.0t engine though. Toyota is still the king of reliability.
That has not been my experience at all, if it was I would NOT be tooting Honda as I do..I rented once a Toyota while travelling in another state and it was a dud, did the same once in Vegas with a Nissan and I was very happy with the car, but not so much that I would move away from Honda.
What can I say ? I and my younger brother, also a Honda Fan are very happy with the vehicles we have owned in the past and present.
In your case scenario you could say we been lucky, but I say it's a great product even now and their reputation as far as I know continues to be as good as it has been in the past.
Gimmick warranty to get stupid people to buy a Kia.
GM/Ford go 5 yrs/60K on powertrain (prior to 2016 GM went 5 yrs/100K) I've owned 30-35 vehicles in the last 20 years, ONE had a failure of the powertrain, tranny in a 8 year old GM pickup. $1300 and it was back on the road. I've driven 4-5 well past 100K miles (173K was the longest) and still no powertrain issues. On a well built vehicle, 10 yrs/100K is a joke for warranty because you won't have an issue.
I'm not sure how it's a gimmick? It's definitely a marketing tool to instill confidence in the quality of the vehicles, but calling it a "gimmick" would imply that it's a trick and doesn't work. It was done in part because Hyundai and Kia have long had reputations for being low quality, and the warranty is an easy way of signaling that the companies stand behind their products. I think the 10yr/100k is a bit of intentiona misdirection since that is only for the powertrain and most issues will be elsewhere, but the 5yr/60k bumper to bumper is still a good deal better than what most manufacturers offer. Regardless of your opinion on Kia, it's a good warranty, not a gimmick.
As far as changing the Buick emblem, do you remember the Big Boy vote of 1985? The vote was overwhelming to keep the mascot. The vote was only about changing the mascot, not changing the menu. Changing a well-know mascot (or emblem) is fraught with peril.
And as far as Buick being an old person's car, I'm having trouble finding accurate data. It looks like the average age of the Buick owner has been decreasing over the years, though. Anyway, the average new car buyer has an income of $80,000, which implies an older, wealthier demographic, limiting the value of going after the youth market. Also, a large proportion of Buick sales are in China, where it is a high-status vehicle.
I don't think the emblem is the issue, I think it's the name that's the bigger problem. Say "Buick" and the average younger buyer still thinks "old." But I'd almost wager the emblem means nothing to anyone who isn't particularly into cars. It doesn't have the instant recognition that Mercedes, BMW, Ford, Chevy, etc. have. Buick has also had no fewer than 16 different logos in the nearly 120 years that they've been in existence. They could revert to an older one (I particularly like 1937-39) if they were worried a departure from the brand's legacy. Regardless of what the logo is though, I think the "Buick" name is the bigger issue for them going forward.
I guess it might depend on where you live, but I don't really think $80k would be considered an older/wealthier demographic. Above average? Definitely, but we're not talking about a small chunk of the population (many new college grads get that right off the bat). For starters, when we talk about "younger buyers," we're often talking about "Millennials," and the older end of that generation is pushing 40 and fairly established. Buick ads seem to be targeting Millennial buyers specifically and their lineup of compact crossovers (young, single professionals) and larger, 7-passenger crossovers (young family) sort of confirms their target demographic.
The only "insult" in my post was to say that someone who bought a car based on its EMBLEM was, well, stupid. But since I can't imagine anyone actually DOING that, I didn't insult anyone. I don't know why you took it that way.
Um, I work in academia and I've taught courses on advertising (and actually include sections on advertising in a lot of my other classes too -- it's one of my favorite topics). So I understand the power of branding, symbolism, etc. What I was disagreeing with is what seemed to me to be your insistence on blaming Buick's EMBLEM for its woes. That seemed to me to be rather overstated.
I really did not mean to insult you (or anyone), and if I did, I do apologize for that.
I wasn't insulted at all, but your initial response — especially for someone teaching in academia — came off as lazy and crude, lacking any thought or conceptual exploration... Now that I know your pedigree, it's all the more puzzling that you initially replied in that manner. I'd expect that from some of the others on here, but not someone of your ilk.
It's fine. Thanks for trying to rectify things and replying.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dc1538
Honda is living off of their former reputation. I'd give them no more consideration than I would a GM vehicle nameplate.
I do agree Honda's rep is carrying the brand (still an extremely reliable vehicle for the price point), however, I still wouldn't put them in the same boat as GM.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huasho
One UGLY sight !!! I am HONDA for more than 25 yrs..Sorry America, but you sold Us to The World, and there are much better vehicles away from the Crap American builds Now !!!
I know for a fact that Ford and Cadillac have also changed or modified their logos a lot over the years. I imagine this is true of most automakers. A logo change shouldn’t scare anybody, but it also shouldn’t really be a deal maker or dealbreaker.
Honda is coasting on its reputation, but they are generally still a quality piece of hardware. Every automaker has duds; my Ma bought a brand new Toyota years ago and it was a nightmare, but I also had a beat-to-hell Toyota I got for free, and it was fantastically reliable. My current Honda has broken stuff on it, but it’s also 24 years old and is probably daring better than most cars its age. One thing to note is that while GMs may not be at parity with most Japanese marques, they are generally a bit cheaper to repair, especially for DIY folks. The gap has shrunk quite a bit, though, especially in the last 15 years, to where domestic makes are not as far behind as some folks here make it out to be.
I like the old one better, and fail to see now this change can possibly improve sales. It reminds me of when Cadillac moved their headquarters to New York City, only to move it back recently. Spending money for no good reason.
Buick is again offering the direct injection engine in the Encore, this time as standard, starting mid 2021. This is the sort of change that makes sense. I have that engine in my 2019 Encore. It's a nice engine; both more powerful and more economical than the base engine.
Buick is supposed to be like a semi-premium brand sandwiched between Chevrolet and Cadillac, right? Sort of? It's supposed to be a little bit more conservative while Cadillac has more flair. What is its actual positioning?
I don't think other large automotive groups generally make this distinction unless they're fairly recent amalgamations like with how FCA has Alfa Romeo and Maserati, but even then, it seems like those two target somewhat different markets with Maserati targeting more upscale. Maybe what GM could do with Buick is put it on the Alfa Romeo, Audi, BMW, Mercedes tier, and then try aiming Cadillac higher up than that? Or maybe have Buick emphasize comfort and Cadillac emphasize sportiness and tech-y-ness while both are in that tier?
I don't think 10/100k warranty plays a huge factor in the younger generations choice to purchase a vehicle. Looks, features, and premium feel are important these days. With some brand snobbery included as it always has, just not to the degree of the past.
The Hyundai/Kia brands offer a lot of features and good enough driving dynamics that many younger people buy them because they’re cheap and nice. It’s why they’ve succeeded when Buick has not. It’s also why Nissan is targeting the same demo and doing the same basic thing.
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