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All of you who are trying to argue what the OP, or try to invalidate his perspective, just does not understand where he is coming from. You actually have to be a young educated black male to understand. I had a friend who went to one of the most prestigious high schools in the suburbs of Chicago, and also went on to one of the top colleges in the nation. Most of the people he was dealing with were Caucasian. Once he landed a great job, he thought living with other young professionals would be good for him so he found a nice spot in the Lincoln Park and Lake View. He told me those two years were the most miserable time in his life. He tried communicating and being social, but instead he felt isolated. I told him what is the reason, but he said it is something unexplainable. He said, "I just feel so uncomfortable for the first time, and I do not know why, and this is my hometown, but it does not feel like home". "However I do not want to go live in a predominantly
African American area".
It is hard for most of you to understand, but it just seems most of the residents who reside in most of Chicago's popular neighborhoods just refuse to mingle, talk, hang out with people who are a different ethnicity. He got a job in Philly, and was living out in the Delaware Valley and it was completely different. He could go to all white hangouts and feel comfortable. You had people from different backgrounds, talking and mingling. Not just white and black, but Latinos, Asians, etc;. I am not going to go out and call the residents of Chicago racist, but why is it like that? It kind of reminds me like the DC and Baltimore area where at times it feels like it is white vs black, and if you are black you have to start acting and being black, and if you are white the same way goes. That notion that it does not matter if you are an educated black male applies there as well, white folks don't care you are just black.
He stated that maybe it is because of stereotypes, and stories about African Americans they hear in the media. However Philly is going through something similar, yet Caucasians, Asians, Latinos, and blacks still mingle and talk. You can go to a bar in South Philly that is all white and if you are the only black person there, you will still feel comfortable and welcomed compared to probably any bar or club in GC/LP/WP/ or Lake View that is practically all white.
Remember Milton Bradley, MLB baseball player, who just couldn't stand the fans in Chicago. He was a multi-millionare, African-American and I rememeber rumors of him saying all he did was stay home, and the only time he went out was to see him son. He probably only went out once during his tenure and was subjected to racial comments and epithets from fans in Wrigley Field. Remember most people who live in these neighborhoods are suburbanites and transplants from places in other states. Makes you wonder if racism is really deep sided among many Caucasian folks in the Chicago area.
If I could rep you a million times, I would. You said so many things I have felt, but articulated it better. Please accept my meagre rep
All of you who are trying to argue what the OP, or try to invalidate his perspective, just does not understand where he is coming from. You actually have to be a young educated black male to understand. I had a friend who went to one of the most prestigious high schools in the suburbs of Chicago, and also went on to one of the top colleges in the nation. Most of the people he was dealing with were Caucasian. Once he landed a great job, he thought living with other young professionals would be good for him so he found a nice spot in the Lincoln Park and Lake View. He told me those two years were the most miserable time in his life. He tried communicating and being social, but instead he felt isolated. I told him what is the reason, but he said it is something unexplainable. He said, "I just feel so uncomfortable for the first time, and I do not know why, and this is my hometown, but it does not feel like home". "However I do not want to go live in a predominantly African American area".
It is hard for most of you to understand, but it just seems most of the residents who reside in most of Chicago's popular neighborhoods just refuse to mingle, talk, hang out with people who are a different ethnicity. He got a job in Philly, and was living out in the Delaware Valley and it was completely different. He could go to all white hangouts and feel comfortable. You had people from different backgrounds, talking and mingling. Not just white and black, but Latinos, Asians, etc;. I am not going to go out and call the residents of Chicago racist, but why is it like that? It kind of reminds me like the DC and Baltimore area where at times it feels like it is white vs black, and if you are black you have to start acting and being black, and if you are white the same way goes. That notion that it does not matter if you are an educated black male applies there as well, white folks don't care you are just black.
He stated that maybe it is because of stereotypes, and stories about African Americans they hear in the media. However Philly is going through something similar, yet Caucasians, Asians, Latinos, and blacks still mingle and talk. You can go to a bar in South Philly that is all white and if you are the only black person there, you will still feel comfortable and welcomed compared to probably any bar or club in GC/LP/WP/ or Lake View that is practically all white.
Remember Milton Bradley, MLB baseball player, who just couldn't stand the fans in Chicago. He was a multi-millionare, African-American and I rememeber rumors of him saying all he did was stay home, and the only time he went out was to see him son. He probably only went out once during his tenure and was subjected to racial comments and epithets from fans in Wrigley Field. Remember most people who live in these neighborhoods are suburbanites and transplants from places in other states. Makes you wonder if racism is really deep sided among many Caucasian folks in the Chicago area.
oops, I agreed with the top, but the part about Milton Bradley is ridiculous.
seriously, you can find much better actual cases of discrimination to make your point - he's been rejected by fans everywhere he has played because he's a giant drama queen who can't accept responsibility when he puts forth little effort and stinks up the joint.
perhaps you should actually read some of the reports from his teammates who described him as a "cancer in the clubhouse" - teammates of all ethnic backgrounds - remember there are probably 35,000 - 40,000 people at any given Wrigley Field game.
even if there are a few loudmouths who yelled something inappropriate and vile at Bradley - I have NEVER heard a racial slur in the 30+ years I've been going - it's way beyond the pale and an over generalization to say that all Cubs fans/northsiders in LP and LV, etc. are racists.
oops, I agreed with the top, but the part about Milton Bradley is ridiculous.
seriously, you can find much better actual cases of discrimination to make your point - he's been rejected by fans everywhere he has played because he's a giant drama queen who can't accept responsibility when he puts forth little effort and stinks up the joint.
perhaps you should actually read some of the reports from his teammates who described him as a "cancer in the clubhouse" - teammates of all ethnic backgrounds - remember there are probably 35,000 - 40,000 people at any given Wrigley Field game.
even if there are a few loudmouths who yelled something inappropriate and vile at Bradley - I have NEVER heard a racial slur in the 30+ years I've been going - it's way beyond the pale and an over generalization to say that all Cubs fans/northsiders in LP and LV, etc. are racists.
A provocative, hyperbolic, racially-tinged post from prinessdanika99 -- I'm so shocked.
I am going ot touch on something, I don't think anyone has touched on yet in this thread. And maybe this might shed some light on some of Chicagos issues compared to other cities/metro areas.
Compared to just about anywhere else, Chicago more than any other city, at least in my opinion, gentrified WAY to much and WAY to fast. This produced in my mind huge neighborhood shifts that have sent ripple effects throughout the metro area. Both Daley administrations (1955-1976) and (1989-2010) were very much involved in what can best be described as social engineering of the cities demographics. (No other city built as much public housing projects, and then systematically tore them down 40 years later, telling half the residents that we don't have room for you and here some vouchers for section 8 housing in the suburbs, thus creating new tensions there).
I honestly wonder if Chicago was left to simply take a natural course and was left to undergo more extensive white flight and population loss until the city hit more of a rock bottom and went through a FULL cycle, thing actually might be different in terms of race relations.
IE: In Philly (maybe as I'm not too familiar with it) and Detroit both which lost a higher % of population (Detroit much more, Philly only a little more) became more African American than Chicago did, if white young professionals were to move into condos or lofts in the city from the suburbs or elsewhere they simply would have to accept living with African Americans. They had to accept that moving into the city, that being close to all the cultural amenities, they knew that safety would not be as guaranteed as the suburbs they were moving from. So, while Philly didn't see the kind of mass gentirification, and Detroit hardly at all, the white professionals that did move there had to get out of their comfort zone, whereas in Chicago, with mass construction of high rise condos people didn't have to get out of their comfort zone as much. They would get to experience city life with people of suburban culture (at least in terms of the 1960s-1980s definition of suburban culture).
Whereas in Chicago, with the building of huge swaths of self-contained luxury of semi-luxury high rises on the north side created a young professional population much less tolerant of lack of total safety. It essentially produced an environment that people could count on as being as safe as the suburbs that they moved from starting the 60s. I think this created a very different culture than what you might have in other cities that had a majority or close to majority black population.
It may have been very instrumental and important in the revitalization of Chicago, but I think it made the city more segregated while being more diverse as well. It left a generation of city dwellers that love and are used to the population density and public transportation of the city, but with the comfort zone and conformity of the suburbs.
- it's way beyond the pale and an over generalization to say that all Cubs fans/northsiders in LP and LV, etc. are racists.
Um. Its not right to say that all cubs fans, lp and lv residence are racist. To deny a racist element isn't present in the area is flat out ignorant.
The first time I ve ever been called a n,g,er to my face was in boystown. The treatment in some of the businesses in boystown is horrible even some of my white friends agree with me in saying that the way I was treated was due to race.
I've never been to a cubs game but I've been to other professional sporting events in other cities and the idea of hearing a racial slurr from an intoxicated white fan is not uncommon. Especially someone like the guy that you are describing. Its not a chicago thing.
Don't get so upset when black people communicate their experiences of racism. Thats how you miss learning opportunities.
Um. Its not right to say that all cubs fans, lp and lv residence are racist. To deny a racist element isn't present in the area is flat out ignorant.
...define a "racist element."
that sounds to me like organized racists, aka a skinhead or some other white power group - and you're insane if you think there is any group like this in that area. there was a brief attempt by some white power skins to establish when I was a teen, and they got the loving snot beaten out of them everywhere they went.
I am quite sure there are idiot white people with racist attitudes in Wrigleyville. I am simply saying I, personally, have never heard one peep out of a fan there that was racially charged. Never.
The worst insult I ever hear at Wrigley is "***" - something in extremely poor taste, especially considering it's proximity to Boystown.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjtinmemphis
Don't get so upset when black people communicate their experiences of racism. Thats how you miss learning opportunities.
LOL. a little thin-skinned, are you? I am absolutely not upset, I just think Milton Bradley was an overpaid punk with a big mouth.
How can you trust him when he gave the same song and dance routine about every team's fans he played for, yet even though Soriano gets booed on a regular basis he never has complained about being insulted like that?
Now, why do you think that might be? Try entertaining the possibility that Bradley is actually lying, as shocking as that apparently is to you.
I just haven't found the bolded to be the case, especially when you get into hyper localized areas like some of Chicago's community areas are. The only areas where you find true diversity are small enclaves around Universities and in urban neighborhoods with social programs designed to help keep lower income residents from being pushed out. This fits nicely with Chicago as well Hyde Park (Uni) and Rogers Park, Edgewater, Uptown (social services).
As for racial tension, it's over played, it's class tension and it's not unique to Chicago. I doubt many people in Lincoln Park would care if a middle/upper class black family moved in next door but if a building on the block went Sec 8, they would flip out.
I agree, it's much more class related than race. That doesn't mean racism doesn't exist.
Todays racist are not hiding behind sheets and walking around with shaved heads. That segment of the population appear to be mainstream. Some have even gone to college and work in the multicultural world because thats what they have to do to make it.
The only way to identify them is by their conversations. These are the ones that will talk about black people when they are only with like minds. They truly believe that blacks are inferior and that we are genetically prone to rape robbing and stealing. They are also the type that you would hear racial slurs from when they are intoxicated.
As far as the gay slur bring thrown around. I heard a guy from the cubs game who parked in boystown call a dude holding his friends hand a name and he almost got his face kicked in.
I know nothing about Milton Bradley. Dont care to know either. I do know what the original poster posted is a common concern for many blacks that choose to make Chicago their home. To denounce the problem out of ignorance is dispecable. I do know its unfortunate that people don't communicate about racism in a community they call home. It does exist and its not pretty.
Todays racist are not hiding behind sheets and walking around with shaved heads. That segment of the population appear to be mainstream. Some have even gone to college and work in the multicultural world because thats what they have to do to make it.
The only way to identify them is by their conversations. These are the ones that will talk about black people when they are only with like minds. They truly believe that blacks are inferior and that we are genetically prone to rape robbing and stealing. They are also the type that you would hear racial slurs from when they are intoxicated.
As far as the gay slur bring thrown around. I heard a guy from the cubs game who parked in boystown call a dude holding his friends hand a name and he almost got his face kicked in.
I know nothing about Milton Bradley. Dont care to know either. I do know what the original poster posted is a common concern for many blacks that choose to make Chicago their home. To denounce the problem out of ignorance is dispecable. I do know its unfortunate that people don't communicate about racism in a community they call home. It does exist and its not pretty.
I am neither saying racism doesn't exist, nor am I saying it isn't a problem where it does.
What I am saying is that if you believe LP & LV have large numbers of closeted bigots and racists out of proportion to the rest of the north side, the burden of proof would be on you to display that. That doesn't match my experience, that's all.
Racism is never pretty, but thankfully it is definitely increasingly (if not largely) unacceptable in terms of displaying it in public.
Anecdotal evidence is certainly valid when you are describing your/one's own experiences, but it doesn't make for a convincing argument when you're generalizing about tens of thousands of people (such as Milton Bradley did, and I didn't bring him up either).
And my point was simply that perhaps the OP could try expanding his social horizons and checking out some different places - Elbo Room, Delilah's, Ten Cat, the Metro, Sheffield's, Goose Island are just a handful of places I've gone with black friends in that area who didn't seem to have felt unwelcome whatsoever.
Don't judge the entire neighborhood by a few people, or a few places - or at least tell us which ones they are, you might be surprised and find out that many of us would agree with you/the OP on a case-by-case basis, I dunno, I'd need more info.
But I've never known anyone of color who felt uncomfortable walking around - or living in - Lake View, at least.
There are a few meathead sectors of Lincoln Park I wouldn't go anywhere near even as a white guy, so I can certainly believe they would less welcoming to a black one.
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