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Your disagreement places you at odds with the revealed word of God. I have already explained to you the difference between divine good and human good. God can only accept divine good (Isa 64:6; Eph 2:8-9; Tit 3:5). He can only condemn human good which in the unbeliever is the basis for his condemnation to the eternal lake of fire (Revelation 20:11-15). When you say you disagree you are saying that you don't believe God. It's that simple.
You don't realize it, I suppose, but this is what you really said: "When you disagree (with my interpretations) you are saying you don't believe God."
There are thousands of people who disagree with you (sciotamicks, for one) in churches all around America. Maybe you should let them all know what you really think.
May the Holy Spirit, not men, lead us into truth.
(I CAN'T trust teachers any longer. Just the simple fact that nobody ever told me that "hell" could mean "grave," as in Revelation 20:14 KJV, makes me question the leaders of Christianity. What's up with that?!)
Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin
Brian,
"You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God."
The unbeliever doesn't do any thing righteously, even if it's the exact same thing (like your example) as the believer.
Hebrews 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please God,...
Most of Christianity does not believe in the power of God. They believe in the awesome power of his adversary.
Last edited by herefornow; 09-14-2010 at 05:27 PM..
You don't realize it, I suppose, but this is what you really said: "When you disagree (with my interpretations) you are saying you don't believe God."
There are thousands of people who disagree with you (sciotamicks, for one) in churches all around America. Maybe you should let them all know what you really think.
May the Holy Spirit, not men, lead us into truth.
(I CAN'T trust teachers any longer. Just the simple fact that nobody ever told me that "hell" could mean "grave," as in Revelation 20:14 KJV, makes me question the leaders of Christianity. What's up with that?!)
Most of Christianity does not believe in the power of God. They believe in the awesome power of his adversary.
You speak well in that you put your heart before the tongue...The Holy Spirit dwells in the heart of man, and the tongue? Oh well...
You don't realize it, I suppose, but this is what you really said: "When you disagree (with my interpretations) you are saying you don't believe God."
There are thousands of people who disagree with you (sciotamicks, for one) in churches all around America. Maybe you should let them all know what you really think.
May the Holy Spirit, not men, lead us into truth.
No, I said that if you disagree with what the Old Testament says about anything, then you don't believe the Bible. You find certain things in the Old Testament (as well as the N.T.) not to your liking, and instead of tryng to understand why things were as they were, you simply dismiss then as doctrines of men or ignorant interpretations on the part of those who lived at that time. I assume you don't believe that Jesus Christ really spoke to Moses in the burnng bush. Or that God really gave the law with its death penalty for certain offenses. You obviously don't believe that God gave the command Israel to destroy its enemies.
Quote:
(I CAN'T trust teachers any longer. Just the simple fact that nobody ever told me that "hell" could mean "grave," as in Revelation 20:14 KJV, makes me question the leaders of Christianity. What's up with that?!)
The King James notwithstanding, Hell is not the Grave. In the original Greek, Hades is not used for the grave. Revelation 20:14 makes a clear distinction between the grave and Hades. Revelation 20:13'...And death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them...'. Death is personified. It is a reference to the body in the grave, and hades is where the soul of the unbeliever goes after death. At the end of the Millennium, all unbelievers will be resurrected in the second resurrection to stand before Jesus at the Great White Throne judgment where they will receive their final sentencing to the eternal lake of fire (Revelation 20).
Most of Christianity does not believe in the power of God. They believe in the awesome power of his adversary.[/quote]
No, I said that if you disagree with what the Old Testament says about anything, then you don't believe the Bible. You find certain things in the Old Testament (as well as the N.T.) not to your liking, and instead of tryng to understand why things were as they were, you simply dismiss then as doctrines of men or ignorant interpretations on the part of those who lived at that time. I assume you don't believe that Jesus Christ really spoke to Moses in the burnng bush. Or that God really gave the law with its death penalty for certain offenses. You obviously don't believe that God gave the command Israel to destroy its enemies.
Mike, you don't know what I understand or what I think, exactly, about the Old Testament. But, I will ask you yet again: What spirit drove David to write about smashing babies?
I did not ask WHY he wrote what he did and I did not ask about the culture of the people battling him at that time.
I simply asked ; Through what spirit did David write that verse?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555
The King James notwithstanding, Hell is not the Grave. In the original Greek, Hades is not used for the grave. Revelation 20:14 makes a clear distinction between the grave and Hades. Revelation 20:13'...And death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them...'. Death is personified. It is a reference to the body in the grave, and hades is where the soul of the unbeliever goes after death. At the end of the Millennium, all unbelievers will be resurrected in the second resurrection to stand before Jesus at the Great White Throne judgment where they will receive their final sentencing to the eternal lake of fire (Revelation 20).
I'm not interested in Greek mythology. Sheol is what the Hebrews used, and they did not believe anything happened at death, besides sleep. To change "Sheol" into "Hades," the Greek mythological underworld, is absolutely ridiculous, and it tells me that the scribes who translated the Jewish scriptures into the Greek were heavily influenced by pagan thought (they were REPEATEDLY warned to stay far, FAR away from paganism. They, and we, just couldn't), which Jesus brilliantly used against them in the parable of Lazarus and the Rich man.
Mike,
can you please show me an example of a believer's good, and a non-believer's good? Because I have yet to find anyone with a particular good, or a good which really distinguishes itself in some way.
If you feed the poor, or an unbeliever feeds the poor, what's the difference? Both do righteously!
Blessings,
brian
An unbeliever gives a glass of water to someone. That act of kindness came from his human righteousness, and while humanly good, it is rejected by God because it IS human good and will be used to condemn him at the Great White throne (Rev 20:11-15).
A believer under the control of his old sin nature ( carnal) gives a glass of water to someone. That act of kindness while humanly good, is from his human righteousness and will be burned up at the judgment seat of Christ as 'wood, hay, and stubble' (1 Cor 3:12-15; 2 Cor 5:10; Romans 14:10-12)..
A believer under the control of the Holy Spirit (spiritual) gives a glass of water to someone. That act of kindness is divine good produced by the Holy Spirit, and is rewarded at the judgment seat of Christ as 'gold, silver, and precious stones (1 Cor 3:12-15; 2 Cor 5:10; Romans 14:10-12).
God's perfect character can have nothing to do with any production that comes from human righteousness. Since the unbeliever has only his human righteousness, he cannot spend eternity in the presence of God, but must spend eternity separated from God.
An unbeliever gives a glass of water to someone. That act of kindness came from his human righteousness, and while humanly good, it is rejected by God because it IS human good and will be used to condemn him at the Great White throne (Rev 20:11-15).
A believer under the control of his old sin nature ( carnal) gives a glass of water to someone. That act of kindness while humanly good, is from his human righteousness and will be burned up at the judgment seat of Christ as 'wood, hay, and stubble' (1 Cor 3:12-15; 2 Cor 5:10; Romans 14:10-12)..
A believer under the control of the Holy Spirit (spiritual) gives a glass of water to someone. That act of kindness is divine good produced by the Holy Spirit, and is rewarded at the judgment seat of Christ as 'gold, silver, and precious stones (1 Cor 3:12-15; 2 Cor 5:10; Romans 14:10-12).
God's perfect character can have nothing to do with any production that comes from human righteousness. Since the unbeliever has only his human righteousness, he cannot spend eternity in the presence of God, but must spend eternity separated from God.
That is not what Rev 20:11-15 means. It simply means one will be judged by their works. Like the Good Samaritan.
The mess like what you wrote is one of the reasons people leave Christianity, or choose not to become one. You take something so simple and complicate the ---- out of it.
That is not what Rev 20:11-15 means. It simply means one will be judged by their works. Like the Good Samaritan.
The mess like what you wrote is one of the reasons people leave Christianity, or choose not to become one. You take something so simple and complicate the ---- out of it.
The King James notwithstanding, Hell is not the Grave. In the original Greek, Hades is not used for the grave. Revelation 20:14 makes a clear distinction between the grave and Hades. Revelation 20:13'...And death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them...'. Death is personified. It is a reference to the body in the grave, and hades is where the soul of the unbeliever goes after death. At the end of the Millennium, all unbelievers will be resurrected in the second resurrection to stand before Jesus at the Great White Throne judgment where they will receive their final sentencing to the eternal lake of fire (Revelation 20).
The Hebrew knows nothing of an eternal damnation or torment of unbelievers in a Lake of Fire. However, it does appear in other various writings; Pseudepigraphia and Apocrypha, but these merely reflect the Hellenistic Greek
views of an underworld called Hades, and resemble that of the Egyptian rivers and lakes of fire. Unfortunately, syncretism has led to the "Hellenized" Christian doctrine, but greatly improved due to the imaginations of men.
Destroying the wickedness or combination of parts under which a thing exists; makes restoration possible.
Mike, you don't know what I understand or what I think, exactly, about the Old Testament. But, I will ask you yet again: What spirit drove David to write about smashing babies?
I did not ask WHY he wrote what he did and I did not ask about the culture of the people battling him at that time.
I simply asked ; Through what spirit did David write that verse?
You have made your views of the Old Testament known.
David did not write Psalm 137. Not all the Psalms were written by David. The author is unknown. It probably was written by someone who had been a captive during the Babylonian captivity. The author of the Psalm may or may not have been expressing his feelings in this prophetic statement. The prophecy was fulfilled when Babylon was conquered by the Medes and the Persians.
Quote:
I'm not interested in Greek mythology. Sheol is what the Hebrews used, and they did not believe anything happened at death, besides sleep. To change "Sheol" into "Hades," the Greek mythological underworld, is absolutely ridiculous, and it tells me that the scribes who translated the Jewish scriptures into the Greek were heavily influenced by pagan thought (they were REPEATEDLY warned to stay far, FAR away from paganism. They, and we, just couldn't), which Jesus brilliantly used against them in the parable of Lazarus and the Rich man.
Hades is the name used in the New Testament to describe the very real place to which the souls of those who die without receiving Christ as Savior go when they die. Hades is the place of which Jesus spoke in Luke 16:19-31. Hades (the paradise side) is the place to which Jesus and the repentant thief went after their deaths. Hades is the very same place that in the Old Testament was called Sheol.
The Hebrews understood quite well that Sheol was a place where the dead go. I covered this in this old thread. You didn't accept what I wrote then, and you doubtless will reject it now. But for others who may benefit by it, here it is...
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