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And if you think that either Jesus Christ or the Holy Spirit indwell any unbeliever you are mistaken. And the fact that you are a universalist means that you do reject the Bible.
The nonsense that you continually post on this forum is typical of the universalist.
You are operating on a false stereotype of universalism that has been promulgated by your mentors to inhibit any thinking about the issue intelligently (more perpetuation of primitive ignorance). The rote repetition of your lies about universalists will not make them true. It reveals that you are not capable of independent thought and can only parrot the rote condemnations of your indoctrination. Rejecting YOUR (and your mentors) INTERPRETATIONS of the Bible is NOT rejecting the Bible . . . your arrogance notwithstanding!
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The truth shall set you free. And the word of God, the Scriptures, are the truth
This is your error. Jesus is the living Word of God and He (and ONLY He) is the TRUTH!
You are operating on a false stereotype of universalism that has been promulgated by your mentors to inhibit any thinking about the issue intelligently (more perpetuation of primitive ignorance). The rote repetition of your lies about universalists will not make them true. It reveals that you are not capable of independent thought and can only parrot the rote condemnations of your indoctrination. Rejecting YOUR (and your mentors) INTERPRETATIONS of the Bible is NOT rejecting the Bible . . . your arrogance notwithstanding!This is your error. Jesus is the living Word of God and He (and ONLY He) is the TRUTH!
How you can remain so ignorant is hard to understand. Jesus Christ is the Living Word and His message set down in writing is the written word. His word is true. The Bible is His word. The Bible is the absolute norm and standard for truth.
1 Thess 2:13 And for this reason we also constantly thank God that when you received from us the word of God's message, you accepted it not as the word of men, but for what it really is, the word of God, which performs it's work in you who believe.
You received our MESSAGE NOT AS THE DOCTRINES AND PRECEPTS OF MEN, BUT FOR WHAT IT REALLY IS, THE WORD OF GOD!!!!!!!!!
Matthew 15:6 'And thus you invalidated the word of God for the sake of your tradition. (Jesus)
Acts 13:46 And Paul and Barnabas spoke out boldly and said, ''It was necessary that the word of God should be spoken to you first; since you repudiate it, and judge yourselves unworthy of eternal life, behold, we are turning to the Gentiles. (Paul)
Acts 17:11 Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily, to see whether these things were true.
Acts 15:35 'But Paul and Barnabas stayed in Antioch, teaching and preaching, with many others also, the word of the Lord (the word of God).
Acts 16:32 And they spoke the word of the Lord (the word of God) to him together with all who were in his house.
2 Tim 2:15 Study to show yourself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth (the word of God).
Jesus recognized the Scriptures as the word of God, Paul recognized the Scriptures as the word of God. But yet, you continue to deny it.
To the contrary. It is your mentor who though his cosmic system has deluded you into accepting universalism. You present a false gospel and deceive the gullable into a false sense of security about their eternal future. Since you continually reject the true Gospel and persist in universalism, it is highly likely that you were never saved in the first place, in which case, if you don't come to your senses, you will find out first hand all about the realities of the eternal lake of fire.
To the contrary. You are as wrong as you can be. It is only through the study of the written word of God that God can come to be known. God the Holy Spirit does NOT teach any believer anything apart from what is contained in the written word. God the Holy Spirit enables the believer to understand the principles and doctrines of the word of God. He does not teach you anything out of thin air. If you do not study the word of God, then the Holy Spirit has nothing with which to work.
If you reject the Bible then you cut yourself off from any possiblity of learning anything about God.
This completely explains why you cannot communicate with people who are not Bible-ists. The Bible is your god. The Bible is not the living Word. I know all your answers to this already, so you might as well save your typing energy. Either way, I'm not going to read your reply because I already know what it will say. Clearly, many do not believe the things that you believe. And that's a fact.
I base all that I believe on Scripture. I do not believe that anyone can understand anything of Scripture without the Holy Ghost giving some level of revelation.
God is love. The Seed of the woman will bruise the serpent's head. That seed or Word is in the heart of all mankind. God must reveal the Seed to man individually, through experience. Simply learning the Bible by rote is shaky ground, not the Rock Himself.
Amen, Brian! Amen!
Many people today will confess that Jesus Christ came in the flesh 2,000 years ago. But that does not mean that they have the Witness in themselves. Only those who are seeing that Christ IS come in the flesh are of God.
That is right, Brian. But people are taught that just by saying a prayer, they instantly know Christ. Of course it takes time to get to know someone, and knowing about someone is not the same as knowing them.
The Bible does teach universalism by its very nature. If God's own creation is to be lost, then He suffers disgrace. But if He saves His own creatures, then there is reason to give Him glory.
Yep. But I do sometimes wonder how he will purge the arrogant religious folks. Lake of fire I reckon.
This completely explains why you cannot communicate with people who are not Bible-ists. The Bible is your god. The Bible is not the living Word. I know all your answers to this already, so you might as well save your typing energy. Either way, I'm not going to read your reply because I already know what it will say. Clearly, many do not believe the things that you believe. And that's a fact.
Heartsong
Jesus Christ is the Living Word and His message is the written word, the Bible.
That you can still not comprehend the issue after what I posted is simply unbelievable. It doesn't matter how clearly something is said, there are simply people who just don't get it. And who don't want to get it.
1 Thess 2:13 And for this reason we also constantly thank God that when you received from us the word of God's message, you accepted it not as the word of men, but for what it really is, the word of God, which performs it's work in you who believe.
You received our MESSAGE NOT AS THE DOCTRINES AND PRECEPTS OF MEN, BUT FOR WHAT IT REALLY IS, THE WORD OF GOD!!!!!!!!!
Matthew 15:6 'And thus you invalidated the word of God for the sake of your tradition. (Jesus)
Acts 13:46 And Paul and Barnabas spoke out boldly and said, ''It was necessary that the word of God should be spoken to you first; since you repudiate it, and judge yourselves unworthy of eternal life, behold, we are turning to the Gentiles. (Paul)
Acts 17:11 Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily, to see whether these things were true.
Acts 15:35 'But Paul and Barnabas stayed in Antioch, teaching and preaching, with many others also, the word of the Lord (the word of God).
Acts 16:32 And they spoke the word of the Lord (the word of God) to him together with all who were in his house.
2 Tim 2:15 Study to show yourself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth (the word of God).
God did give commands to kill all men, women, children, infants and animals on different occasions as punishment for idolatry. For being demon influenced and demon possessed. God told Israel to utterly destroy the Canaanites because if they didn’t they would lead Israel into idolatry and wickedness. The women were just as idolatrous as the men and the children would grow up to be the same.
Why do you think the animals needed to be punished?
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Originally Posted by Mike555
Deuteronomy 7:2 And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them: 3 Neither shalt thou make marriages with them; thy daughter thou shalt not give unto his son, nor his daughter shalt thou take unto thy son. 4 For they will turn away thy son from following me, that they may serve other gods: so will the anger of the LORD be kindled against you, and destroy thee suddenly.
1 Samuel 15:3 records a command by God to kill all men, women and children.
But that is not what this passage is talking about.
Critics like to use this passage to discredit the Old Testament. They don't understand what it's saying. Psalm 137:9 is not saying that God is going to bless the soldiers who kill the children. Nor is He giving a command here to kill them. It is the wish of the Psalmist who wants the Babylonians to be repayed for what they did to the Jews during the Babylonian captivity. And it is a prophecy of what would happen when Babylon was conquered by the Medes and the Persians in 539 B.C. It is a matter of historical fact.
The prophecy is given in Isaiah 13:17-22 where it foretells in verse 18 of the fact that the Medes and the Persians would not have any pity on the children.
You have heard it said an eye for an eye, but I SAY (Jesus who is the IMAGE OF HIS FATHER!) NO!
That is exactly what Jesus was saying. You still don't get why Jesus was so mad at the religious. You probably won't until you die.
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Originally Posted by Mike555
The ancient world could be very barbaric and very cruel things happened in war.
All I can say is, "Duh," Mike. I ain't got nothin' left. Do you think you are talking to kindergartners?
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Originally Posted by Mike555
But not just in the ancient world...
You may have heard of the Nanjing Massacre during World War 2, in which Japanese soldiers over a six week period raped and killed thousands, including infants.
Thanks, Mike. For crying out loud. You do understand that Jesus was tortured, hanging on a cross, and STILL cried, "Father, forgive them!!!" Can you imagine yourself doing that? I couldn't.
I still have hope for you.
(P.S. It is the GOODNESS of God that leads to repentance, NOT an eye for an eye)
Last edited by herefornow; 09-10-2010 at 04:41 PM..
Jesus Christ is the Living Word and His message is the written word, the Bible.
That you can still not comprehend the issue after what I posted is simply unbelievable. It doesn't matter how clearly something is said, there are simply people who just don't get it. And who don't want to get it.
1 Thess 2:13 And for this reason we also constantly thank God that when you received from us the word of God's message, you accepted it not as the word of men, but for what it really is, the word of God, which performs it's work in you who believe.
You received our MESSAGE NOT AS THE DOCTRINES AND PRECEPTS OF MEN, BUT FOR WHAT IT REALLY IS, THE WORD OF GOD!!!!!!!!!
Matthew 15:6 'And thus you invalidated the word of God for the sake of your tradition. (Jesus)
Everything you post accurately describes your own delusion and misguided lack of understanding of God. Jesus Christ is the Living Word and His message is His life, death, rebirth as Spirit and the two commandments of "love God and each other" "Written in our hearts" . . . NOT the written word, the Bible.
The ONLY word received from the Word of God (Jesus) . . . the disciples recorded in the NT . . . NOT in the Scriptures that existed at the time (OT)!!! They were not talking about receiving the Scriptures as the word of God (or what you now call the Bible). They were talking about receiving Jesus' message of love and commands to love as the living Word of God. The pharisees already had the ignorant interpretations of the scribblings of the OT . . . which Jesus refers to as tradition in Matt 15:6.
Jesus Christ is the Living Word and His message is the written word, the Bible.
That you can still not comprehend the issue after what I posted is simply unbelievable. It doesn't matter how clearly something is said, there are simply people who just don't get it. And who don't want to get it.
1 Thess 2:13 And for this reason we also constantly thank God that when you received from us the word of God's message, you accepted it not as the word of men, but for what it really is, the word of God, which performs it's work in you who believe.
You received our MESSAGE NOT AS THE DOCTRINES AND PRECEPTS OF MEN, BUT FOR WHAT IT REALLY IS, THE WORD OF GOD!!!!!!!!!
Matthew 15:6 'And thus you invalidated the word of God for the sake of your tradition. (Jesus)
Acts 13:46 And Paul and Barnabas spoke out boldly and said, ''It was necessary that the word of God should be spoken to you first; since you repudiate it, and judge yourselves unworthy of eternal life, behold, we are turning to the Gentiles. (Paul)
Acts 17:11 Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily, to see whether these things were true.
Acts 15:35 'But Paul and Barnabas stayed in Antioch, teaching and preaching, with many others also, the word of the Lord (the word of God).
Acts 16:32 And they spoke the word of the Lord (the word of God) to him together with all who were in his house.
2 Tim 2:15 Study to show yourself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth (the word of God).
Hi Mike,
I am very familiar with the verses above, as I myself used to frequent fundamentalists.
I have a different understanding of these verses now, not because of man's teaching, but because of what I can declare is in me, which is the Word Himself.
"Preaching the word of God" is not about carrying New Testaments around, like the JWs do, knocking from door to door. (It wasn't even written then!) The Word is the testimony within us, which we declare to others, our change of heart which God gives us according to His pleasure.
So "the word of God" or the "word of the Lord" is alive and within us, not the declarations of others written on paper.
Do you not think that God, who made us who are Gentiles (pagans) by nature, would tend to idolize a book instead of worshipping God in the Spirit? And yet this is exactly what the Gentiles do today, from Catholics to Protestants!
The Bible is the record of the experiential indwelling Word within the early church. It is not God.
One is God. The other is the testimony of God in man.
Why do you think the animals needed to be punished?
The penalty for demonism under the Mosaic Law was death. Israel was surrounded by many peoples who were engaged in idolatry which can lead to demonism. God was shaping Israel into a nation in a land where there were many people who were demon possessed. This is why God ordered the total destruction of those who with whom Israel battled. To prevent the religous practices and customs from being adopted by Israel. Demon possession can affect animals too. This is why they were destroyed.
The degeneracy and debilitating effects of getting involved with demonism can so degrade a nation that God must ultimately wipe it off the face of the earth. That was the case with the Canaanites who were so involved with demonism that God gave the command that they be utterly destroyed.
Deut 20:17 But you shall utterly destroy them, the Hittite and the Amorite, the Canaanite and the Peizzite, the Hivite and the Jebusite, as the LORD your God has commanded you, 18] in order that they may not teach you to do according to all their detestable things which they have done for their gods, so that you would sin aainst the LORD your God.
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You have heard it said an eye for an eye, but I SAY (Jesus who is the IMAGE OF HIS FATHER!) NO!
That is exactly what Jesus was saying. You still don't get why Jesus was so mad at the religious. You probably won't until you die.
Jesus had righteous indignation toward the Pharisee's because they kept the letter of the law without understanding the spirit of the law. They were hypocrites who did their deeds for the sake of receiving praise from those who saw them.
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Thanks, Mike. For crying out loud. You do understand that Jesus was tortured, hanging on a cross, and STILL cried, "Father, forgive them!!!" Can you imagine yourself doing that? I couldn't.
I still have hope for you.
(P.S. It is the GOODNESS of God that leads to repentance, NOT an eye for an eye)
You have brought up the Pharisee's and the matter of Jesus on the Cross and the matter of repentance. None of which relates to the issue of Israel being established in the land and what was involved with that. And why God gave the command to Israel to destroy its enemies. That has been addressed above.
It is Jesus Christ who is the revealed member of the Godhead. It was Jesus Christ who gave the law to Moses and it was Jesus Christ who gave the command to go to war and to kill men, women, and Children, and animals for the reasons already given.
And I recently said elsewhere, when Jesus was addressing the issue of turning the other cheek, He was referring to not taking personal revenge. The law concerning an eye for an eye was actually a part of the Mosaic Law which itself was given only to Israel and was designed to prevent the punishment from being worse than the crime.
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I ain't got nothin' left. Do you think you are talking to kindergartners?
