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I realize NOT all Christians believe in this; however, quite a few do. This means that according to this doctrine, humans are guilty (born in sin, hence born "sinners") until proven innocent (via the acceptance of Jesus' death and resurrection). I saw this on another forum and I never really looked at it like that before considering one of our bedrock law principles in that the accused is innocent until proven guilty.
Is this why [some] Christians can be judgmental and arrogant?
I just wrote about this in a Catholic forum this morning. I was raised a Catholic and have always rejected the whole original sin idea (among many other tenets of Catholicism). Someone in the Catholic forum asked: To you who no longer claim to be Catholic, why did you leave? I responded by stating a case similar to yours. We were even told in Catholic school that the reason you must immediately baptize a newborn is so that he won't go to hell, in case he dies in his infancy. They really do believe that too, that a baby would go to hell all because his parents didn't get him to a baptism on time! I don't believe this could possibly be true. A baby has no direction, no independence. It's not a personal choice! What wrongdoing has he committed? But again that's the point: by being born, he's already a sinner; that's what Original Sin is. Hmmm.
Sin comes to us naturally. No one has to teach people to be dishonest, to steal, disrespect others etc. People make laws in an effort to protect the society from their own sinful behaviour.
Romans 5 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned— for before the law was given, sin was in the world. But sin is not taken into account when there is no law. Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who was a pattern of the one to come.
But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God's grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many! Again, the gift of God is not like the result of the one man's sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification.
Last edited by Finn_Jarber; 09-29-2010 at 11:23 AM..
Sin comes to us naturally. No one has to tech people to be dishonest, to steal, disrespect others etc. People make laws in an effort to protect the society from their own sinful behaviour.
Romans 5 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned— for before the law was given, sin was in the world. But sin is not taken into account when there is no law. Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who was a pattern of the one to come.
But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God's grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many! Again, the gift of God is not like the result of the one man's sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification.
Actually, sin does have to be taught in order to be acted upon. If no one sinned in the world and we only had to have the inclination, there would still be no sin in our actions.
Besides, it's only man who labels it "sin". What God sees is the natural working of things that are still unsettled. He sees perfection whereas we see imperfection because we have not evolved to His frequency.
No one has to teach a child to lie, because it comes naturally. Did someone teach you to lie? Who taught you?
Kids react because of what they are taught, not by what is in them at birth. My own parents taught me how to lie until I saw what lying does so I always tell the truth based on what my own experiences are. When I raised my own child, I never lied to him, never showed him anger, never hit or slapped him, nor did I teach him to react negatively to others. I always told him the truth no matter if he understood or not. He would just keep asking the same question un til he understood. He cries even seeing someone hit another person even if he is at a distance. When he sees that I'm grumpy at something or I react to something in a grouchy manner, he'll say "Are you in a bad mood" and I'll say "I feel edgy/grumpy/oangry but I don't know whay. When I figure it out, I'll let you know" adn it usually takes a few minutes for me to think about why and I figure it out, tell him and then my mood is brighter the rest of the day. When he sees some one react negatively to another, he always "they don't know love, do they mom". I'll say they do but not the way we know love.
Parents insist on hiding things from children when it's not necessary. Children can "read between the lines" so to speak and can sense a lot of emotions before we even know what the emotion is. Children become what we teach them. They don't do it on their own.
Kids react because of what they are taught, not by what is in them at birth. My own parents taught me how to lie until I saw what lying does so I always tell the truth based on what my own experiences are. When I raised my own child, I never lied to him, never showed him anger, never hit or slapped him, nor did I teach him to react negatively to others. I always told him the truth no matter if he understood or not. He would just keep asking the same question un til he understood. He cries even seeing someone hit another person even if he is at a distance. When he sees that I'm grumpy at something or I react to something in a grouchy manner, he'll say "Are you in a bad mood" and I'll say "I feel edgy/grumpy/oangry but I don't know whay. When I figure it out, I'll let you know" adn it usually takes a few minutes for me to think about why and I figure it out, tell him and then my mood is brighter the rest of the day. When he sees some one react negatively to another, he always "they don't know love, do they mom". I'll say they do but not the way we know love.
Parents insist on hiding things from children when it's not necessary. Children can "read between the lines" so to speak and can sense a lot of emotions before we even know what the emotion is. Children become what we teach them. They don't do it on their own.
I think that you disregard animal instinct. There are natural inclinations that have nothing to do with what we are taught, but that can be reinforced or otherwise tempered by how we are taught ...
Violence is a natural instinctual reaction, fight or flight, for instance ...
Romans 9:8
In other words, it is not the natural children who are God's children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's offspring.
1 Corinthians 15:46
The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual.
I think that you disregard animal instinct. There are natural inclinations that have nothing to do with what we are taught, but that can be reinforced or otherwise tempered by how we are taught ...
Violence is a natural instinctual reaction, fight or flight, for instance ...
That's why I stated that we are born with the inclination to sin. We can be born sinless in the material sense but we aren't born sinless in the spiritual sense. The inclinations are with the spirit/soul, not the material body.
Arguing and fighting are natural with children. It's when we label it sin that it becomes a sin.
My logic is that if you react negatively to that which comes natural, then it will lead to sinfullness. If you react positively, then it will become normal and more humane to "love thy neighbor" instead of hate thy neighbor and fight, argue, etc.
Anyone who spends time around children can see our sinful nature. I used to be a preschool teacher and boy did I see it daily!
Yes, it is quite disturbing isn't it, but that is how we are thanks to Adam and his rebellion.
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