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I realize NOT all Christians believe in this; however, quite a few do. This means that according to this doctrine, humans are guilty (born in sin, hence born "sinners") until proven innocent (via the acceptance of Jesus' death and resurrection). I saw this on another forum and I never really looked at it like that before considering one of our bedrock law principles in that the accused is innocent until proven guilty.
Is this why [some] Christians can be judgmental and arrogant?
The doctrine of original sin is that "in" Adam all have sinned. This parallels the doctrine of justification that "in" Christ all are righteous. Many Catholics do not fully understand or appreciate the importance of this parallel and how it weaves through much of Catholic teaching.
This whole proposition of "original sin" presents a particular quandry. If it is so and we are born in sin...then Jesus was also born in sin since his mother, Mary, would also have been born in sin....hence, Jesus would not be sinless as he is espoused to be.
If we are not born in sin or do not carry "original sin"...then we are not actually sinners unless we transgress the Law (10 commandments)...for it clearly states that sin is the transgression of the Law....since before the Law, sin was not imputed.
Some will say, that we have the propensity to sin...but propensity doesn't mean one actually sins or transgresses the Law....therefore, some can claim to be without sin.
It will be very interesting to see the Christian spin regarding this quandry.
Even before the terms "original sin" and "immaculate conception" had been defined, early passages imply the doctrines. Many works mention that Mary gave birth to Jesus without pain. But pain in childbearing is part of the penalty of original sin (Gen. 3:16). Thus, Mary could not have been under that penalty. By God’s grace, she was immaculate in anticipation of her Son’s redemptive death on the cross. The Church therefore describes Mary as "the most excellent fruit of redemption" (CCC 508).
The Immaculate Conception means that Mary, whose conception was brought about the normal way, was conceived without original sin or its stain—that’s what "immaculate" means: without stain. The essence of original sin consists in the deprivation of sanctifying grace, and its stain is a corrupt nature. Mary was preserved from these defects by God’s grace; from the first instant of her existence she was in the state of sanctifying grace and was free from the corrupt nature original sin brings.
"As regards children who have died without baptism, the Church can only entrust them to the mercy of God, as she does in her funeral rites for them. Indeed, the great mercy of God, who desires that all men should be saved, and Jesus' tenderness toward children, which caused him to say, `Let the children come to me, do not hinder them' [Mark 10:14, cf. 1 Tim. 2:4], allow us to hope that there is a way of salvation for children who have died without baptism. All the more urgent is the Church's call not to prevent little children coming to Christ through the gift of holy baptism" (CCC 1261).
The doctrine of original sin is that "in" Adam all have sinned. This parallels the doctrine of justification that "in" Christ all are righteous. Many Catholics do not fully understand or appreciate the importance of this parallel and how it weaves through much of Catholic teaching.
Even before the terms "original sin" and "immaculate conception" had been defined, early passages imply the doctrines. Many works mention that Mary gave birth to Jesus without pain. But pain in childbearing is part of the penalty of original sin (Gen. 3:16). Thus, Mary could not have been under that penalty. By God’s grace, she was immaculate in anticipation of her Son’s redemptive death on the cross. The Church therefore describes Mary as "the most excellent fruit of redemption" (CCC 508).
The Immaculate Conception means that Mary, whose conception was brought about the normal way, was conceived without original sin or its stain—that’s what "immaculate" means: without stain. The essence of original sin consists in the deprivation of sanctifying grace, and its stain is a corrupt nature. Mary was preserved from these defects by God’s grace; from the first instant of her existence she was in the state of sanctifying grace and was free from the corrupt nature original sin brings.
>>>The doctrine of original sin is that "in" Adam all have sinned<<<
Catholic Answer's statement is commonly held but really has no scriptural basis. It is the mistranslation of Romans 5:12 upon which Augustine based his original sin teaching, "in whom all have sinned" (Latin "In que"). This is the scriptural support for the claim that we all share in Adam's sin and bear "the stain of original sin." Hence we must be baptized.
The Douay Rheims still contains this error but it was corrected in more recent bibles such as the New American Bible.
Romans 5:12 "Wherefore as by one man sin entered into this world, and by sin death; and so death passed upon all men, in whom all have sinned. (Douay Rheims)
Romans 5:12 "Therefore, just as through one person sin entered the world, and through sin, death, and thus death came to all, inasmuch as all sinned."(New American Bible)
In the correct translation, it is said that all men sin, but there is nothing about all men being guilty of Adam's (Original) sin.
Hence, if according to Catholic theology, a child below the age of reason cannot commit a sin, it would logically follow that he should not be precluded from entering heaven even without baptism.
Last edited by ancient warrior; 10-07-2010 at 10:02 AM..
Reason: letter size codes eliminated
The Immaculate Conception means that Mary, whose conception was brought about the normal way, was conceived without original sin or its stain—that’s what "immaculate" means: without stain. The essence of original sin consists in the deprivation of sanctifying grace, and its stain is a corrupt nature. Mary was preserved from these defects by God’s grace; from the first instant of her existence she was in the state of sanctifying grace and was free from the corrupt nature original sin brings.
I don't understand why anyone needs to be cleansed from "original sin." Why would God punish one person for something someone else did? That certainly doesn't sound like something a just God would do. Heaven knows, we all have enough sins of our own that need forgiving. We don't need to be held accountable for the sins of anyone else. I believe Mary was conceived without original sin, too, just as all of us were. When I hold a newborn baby in my arms, I have to wonder how anybody could look at this tiny perfect being and see it as needing forgiveness for the only thing it has ever done -- be born.
I don't understand why anyone needs to be cleansed from "original sin." Why would God punish one person for something someone else did? That certainly doesn't sound like something a just God would do. Heaven knows, we all have enough sins of our own that need forgiving. We don't need to be held accountable for the sins of anyone else. I believe Mary was conceived without original sin, too, just as all of us were. When I hold a newborn baby in my arms, I have to wonder how anybody could look at this tiny perfect being and see it as needing forgiveness for the only thing it has ever done -- be born.
RESPONSE: It was necessary to explain why God's creation was imperfect and every living thing died. Augustine, using an erroneous translation of Romans, came up with the claim that everybody was guilty of Adam's sin ("in whom all sinned" no matter how nonsensical that was.
If there was no Original Sin, obviously Mary couldn't have been preserved from its "stain."
Belief in the Assumption arose from fifth century spurious writings.
The Assumption of Mary into Heaven
by Father William G. Most
Evidence for the Assumption
"There had been a problem of how the Pope could define the Assumption. There seemed to be nothing in Scripture on it, and what things there were in the Tradition of the Fathers seemed to come not from an apostolic origin, but from some apocryphal stories that circulated chiefly beginning in the fourth century."
Last edited by ancient warrior; 10-09-2010 at 01:02 PM..
Reason: typo
RESPONSE: It was necessary to explain why God's creation was imperfect and every living thing died. Augustine, using an erroneous translation of Romans, came up with the claim that everybody was guilty of Adam's sin ("in whom all sinned" no matter how nonsensical that was.
Agreed. We don't need an explanation for why we're all imperfect. All we have to do is look at ourselves so see that. We all mess up, do things we know are wrong. We all sin on our own. We certainly don't need to have somebody else's guilt piled on us. Besides, I thought Christians believed that Jesus Christ atoned for everybody's sins. Was Adam somehow exempt from the effects of Christ's sacrifice? If Christ atoned for everybody's sins, He atoned for Adam's. It's been paid for, taken care of. In other words, why are we still being held responsible for it? It's absolute nonsense. Furthermore, who gave Augustine the right to make this decision? He wasn't God.
Quote:
"There had been a problem of how the Pope could define the Assumption. There seemed to be nothing in Scripture on it, and what things there were in the Tradition of the Fathers seemed to come not from an apostolic origin, but from some apocryphal stories that circulated chiefly beginning in the fourth century."
Agreed again. In the first place, I can't imagine how anybody who actually knew Mary believed that she never, ever sinned. Secondly, if the Assumption really happened, why is there nothing written of it prior to the fourth century? There's nothing wrong with "tradition" per se, but it has to have its origins in truth. If God had stopped communicating with His Church after the deaths of the Apostles, then no doctrine that came to exist after that time could be considered inspired or revealed. It would have to just be somebody's opinion.
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