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Just to play devil's advocate here (no pun intended) or perhaps just to consolidate the beliefs between ET and UR, maybe those penalties include the horrific dire things the ETers warn about....fiery hell,torment, etc?
old_cold, whatever the events are they would be curtailments. There is no doubt that it would be seen as horrific since all sin is horrific from a righteous vantage point. But "hell" or "torment" as published by the ET crowd is more of a misunderstanding of God's nature.
NO WAY!! It is a cleansing process by way of God's "spiritual fire".....it is not literal fire like ETer's would have you believe. ET and UR are light years away from each other....no way to consolidate the beliefs.
I think you may be right, question is, how can one be sure that the UR God is the one true God, and not the ET God, after all, one can interpret the bible any which way they deem fit, in order to suit their own viewpoint/pet doctrines
Come to think of it no matter what a person's viewpoint is, one has to pick and choose which parts of the bible they like, as it supports ER, ED and UR depending on which parts people are concentrating on
NO WAY!! It is a cleansing process by way of God's "spiritual fire".....it is not literal fire like ETer's would have you believe. ET and UR are light years away from each other....no way to consolidate the beliefs.
Jesus said it is finished. There is no need for a cleansing process.
Jesus said it is finished. There is no need for a cleansing process.
Riiight ... Like we as Christians are not salted with fire while alive on earth, and as if our father does not chastise all those whom he loves, because it was all finished on the cross ...
Get a new one liner, that one is tired and theologically "hair brained" in this context.
Renewal is all about purification, either in this life or after the resurrection at the time of Judgment. Christ will make everything new one way or another ...
Accept it, and believe it ... Its true.
Peace ...
Last edited by Ironmaw1776; 10-06-2010 at 09:58 AM..
I think you may be right, question is, how can one be sure that the UR God is the one true God, and not the ET God, after all, one can interpret the bible any which way they deem fit, in order to suit their own viewpoint/pet doctrines
Come to think of it no matter what a person's viewpoint is, one has to pick and choose which parts of the bible they like, as it supports ER, ED and UR depending on which parts people are concentrating on
There's only one God, it's just that some choose to view Him as a tormentor, and others (very few) choose to view Him as a loving Father who would never do such a thing. It's a matter of interpretation of the scriptures, plus thousands of years of the wrong teachings. Brainwashing if you will. It's taken me 47 years to see the error of ET, but once I saw it I went .....no wonder ET and fundamentalism never made any sense to me!! Because it's a lie, and the worst lie ever. God is an awesome God full of love and wonder and it's important that the message of UR gets out there....it will bring more people to Christ.
There's only one God, it's just that some choose to view Him as a tormentor, and others (very few) choose to view Him as a loving Father who would never do such a thing. It's a matter of interpretation of the scriptures, plus thousands of years of the wrong teachings. Brainwashing if you will. It's taken me 47 years to see the error of ET, but once I saw it I went .....no wonder ET and fundamentalism never made any sense to me!! Because it's a lie, and the worst lie ever. God is an awesome God full of love and wonder and it's important that the message of UR gets out there....it will bring more people to Christ.
Ilene, what you are failing to see is that both UR and ET believe in a God that torments. UR believes God torments first by fire, and then either brainwashes for the rest of eternity or torments for eternity by forcing those who rejected Him to spend eternity with Him. You are right, ET truly does warp the image of God's character, but so does UR. UR's keep using the text about every knee bowing as though it says everyone will welcome Christ into their hearts, when it does not state that. It says that every voice will proclaim that Christ is Lord, but that is simply a statement of fact. Satan will eventually declare that Christ is Lord, but he will hate every minute of it. A person can confess to a crime and admit the court is right, but still be unremorseful.
Ilene, what you are failing to see is that both UR and ET believe in a God that torments. UR believes God torments first by fire, and then either brainwashes for the rest of eternity or torments for eternity by forcing those who rejected Him to spend eternity with Him. You are right, ET truly does warp the image of God's character, but so does UR. UR's keep using the text about every knee bowing as though it says everyone will welcome Christ into their hearts, when it does not state that. It says that every voice will proclaim that Christ is Lord, but that is simply a statement of fact. Satan will eventually declare that Christ is Lord, but he will hate every minute of it. A person can confess to a crime and admit the court is right, but still be unremorseful.
It is too bad that this simple truth is lost on the UR crowd.
Many people were converted to Christianity over the centuries.......at the point of a sword. Same thing here.
Ilene, what you are failing to see is that both UR and ET believe in a God that torments. UR believes God torments first by fire, and then either brainwashes for the rest of eternity or torments for eternity by forcing those who rejected Him to spend eternity with Him. You are right, ET truly does warp the image of God's character, but so does UR. UR's keep using the text about every knee bowing as though it says everyone will welcome Christ into their hearts, when it does not state that. It says that every voice will proclaim that Christ is Lord, but that is simply a statement of fact. Satan will eventually declare that Christ is Lord, but he will hate every minute of it. A person can confess to a crime and admit the court is right, but still be unremorseful.
You're so very WRONG. UR DOES NOT believe that God torments...period....much less by fire. Those who are in need of "refinement" will be tried by God's Holy "spiritual fire" which is something we experience in the here and now. Is it literal "fire"? Of course not! None of what is described, the lake of fire for instance, is literal fire. We may not understand completely what "spiritual fire" is, but it's not the kind of fire that burns. I feel as though it is a complete washing by the Holy Spirit and after that process we will be clean and presentable to God. All sin will be "burned off" by the spiritual fire of cleansing and refinement, like gold.
Once one has been cleansed and experiences a true rebirth by way of God's Holy Spirit, this is when that one will gladly bow and proclaim Jesus' name. You'll see.
Ilene, what you are failing to see is that both UR and ET believe in a God that torments. UR believes God torments first by fire, and then either brainwashes for the rest of eternity or torments for eternity by forcing those who rejected Him to spend eternity with Him. You are right, ET truly does warp the image of God's character, but so does UR. UR's keep using the text about every knee bowing as though it says everyone will welcome Christ into their hearts, when it does not state that. It says that every voice will proclaim that Christ is Lord, but that is simply a statement of fact. Satan will eventually declare that Christ is Lord, but he will hate every minute of it. A person can confess to a crime and admit the court is right, but still be unremorseful.
Hi HalfNelson, I think you misunderstand UR. God does not need to "force" or "brainwash" anyone to come to him, no more than he needed to force Saul of Tarsus to convert to the great apostle Paul on the road to Damascus.
Its a simple matter of when God reveals himself to you and gives you understanding, then you will follow God.
Perhaps you rejected God at some point yet now here you are a believer. In fact the truth of the matter is that we all have rejected God, and we only come to believe in God when God reveals himself to us in a unique way for each of us. Those who believe in UR understand that God will eventually reveal himself to all people so that all people will willingly come to him. Just like Saul/Paul did on the road to Damascus, and just like you and I have come to know Him because of God working our lives.
Peace out...
PS regarding the text about every knee bowing - read Isaiah 45:22-23 in a few different versions (NASB for example) - you will see it is talking about swearing allegiance. This is no forced/false confession (God does not like nor need a false confession). All will truly become loyal to God, to the glory of the Father...
UR's keep using the text about every knee bowing as though it says everyone will welcome Christ into their hearts, when it does not state that. It says that every voice will proclaim that Christ is Lord, but that is simply a statement of fact. Satan will eventually declare that Christ is Lord, but he will hate every minute of it. A person can confess to a crime and admit the court is right, but still be unremorseful.
You got a scripture that states that?
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.....no wonder ET and fundamentalism never made any sense to me!! Because it's a lie, and the worst lie ever. God is an awesome God full of love and wonder and it's important that the message of UR gets out there....it will bring more people to Christ.
