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The reason many "Christians" don't want to believe in hell is because it makes them uncomfortable.
With no hell, they can lead whatever lifestyle they choose.
Jesus said------" not everyone who says Lord,Lord, shall be saved"
Jesus said------" the lukewarm I shall vomit from my mouth"
When asked how to love Jesus, Jesus said-------" keep my commandments "
WRONG. Do you not think for yourself, marmac? Do you really *need* hell to keep you in line? If so, that is sad. There is such a thing as "personal responsibility", and knowing and understanding that which is involved with maintaining it comes from thinking and using the brain that "your" god gave you- NOT blindly following. Jesus taught personal responsibility. The bible, however, very often does not. Hence one of the biggest problems with the whole concept of ET and other related hogwash and why jesus shouldn't even be brought up by anyone who claims to believe that everyone but they are going to hell in a handbasket...
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
This is complete nonsense . . . the reason is because it is an utterly vile and evil belief that blasphemes the loving nature of our God. It is an ignorant ancient primitive belief system that Jesus came to correct by example and teaching.Jesus' commandments are "love God and each other."
Yep, that sums it up pretty well. And I'll never for the life of me understand how people can claim to love and follow jesus- and then do and act in a way that is COMPLETELY contrary to every single thing he taught.
Do you really *need* hell to keep you in line? If so, that is sad.
Apparently - some professing Christians do. I've had more than one tell me point blank that they would cheat on their wives, steal from their boss etc. if they thought they could get away with it.
In fact - when I shared UR with a long time friend/neighbor of mine he said "Well - then let's go down the street and rape Doris (a mutual friend/business owner) and steal all her money. Why not - if there is no eternal hell?"
Needless to say - I was shocked, just... speechless.
Not to just gang up on Christians - I saw a Muhammad Ali interview where he said he always carried around a book of matches and if was ever tempted to sin he'd step out and strike a match and hold it to his skin for a second to remind him how bad hell was.
Dewdrop and helios...it doesn't matter what either of you think. Neither of you are believers, so your opinions concerning how and what I should post or what the subject matter should be in your opinions, mean nothing to me.
This is a common mistake. Professing a religious "belief" in someone we call (in English) "Jesus" in no way has anything to do with whether one is a follower of the real Jesus or not.
The fruit tells what the tree is 100% of the time. If a person acts in selfless kindness through compassion/love - that comes from Christ. Professing to follow the bible and to "believe in Jesus" means nothing - zero. An atheist, Hindu, agnostic, - even a democrat (*jk*) is operating in the Spirit of Christ when they operate in selfless empathy.
This is why every hell (Gahenna) fire or LOF passage you read about in the bible is fruit based, not religious works or faith based - but acts of compassion ("I was sick and you visited me, hungry and you fed me" etc. etc) or the lack thereof ("I was sick and you didn't visit me").
You discovered that the church was wrong about salvation and now about ECT (Eternal conscious torment) but you don't understand yet that Jesus has no problem with those whom the church calls "unbelievers".
What He has a problem with is hypocrisy and calloused uncaring hearts.
This is a common mistake. Professing a religious "belief" in someone we call (in English) "Jesus" in no way has anything to do with whether one is a follower of the real Jesus or not.
The fruit tells what the tree is 100% of the time. If a person acts in selfless kindness through compassion/love - that comes from Christ. Professing to follow the bible and to "believe in Jesus" means nothing - zero. An atheist, Hindu, agnostic, - even a democrat (*jk*) is operating in the Spirit of Christ when they operate in selfless empathy.
This is why every hell (Gahenna) fire or LOF passage you read about in the bible is fruit based, not religious works or faith based - but acts of compassion ("I was sick and you visited me, hungry and you fed me" etc. etc) or the lack thereof ("I was sick and you didn't visit me").
You discovered that the church was wrong about salvation and now about ECT (Eternal conscious torment) but you don't understand yet that Jesus has no problem with those whom the church calls "unbelievers".
What He has a problem with is hypocrisy and calloused uncaring hearts.
People are like people in a cafeteria-------picking and choosing.
They choose/pick to believe Jesus said " love your neighbor", but refuse to believe/pick any of Jesus words on eterna; damnation.
Why is that ?
As I stated earlier, it makes them uncomfortable .
Because our consciences started really bothering us when the spirit began moved within us to show us that something was really wrong with what were believing in ... So then we started looking closer and studying harder and praying and asking God to help us understand.
When we went back the the Koine Greek and found that the words interpreted as "Eternal" and "damnation" only took on that meaning when they were translated into Latin in the vulgate. And later the words Gehenna and Hades and Tartarus and and Sheol were all mistranslated as well when the english translations started translating them all as Hell.
When we decided to question what we were being told by the men that put it on themselves to stand over others and Teach them what the scriptures are saying and honestly began to look at the scriptures with a new understanding of the biblical languages, and from outside the box of traditional orthodox fundamentalism.
And when we began studying church history and came to realize that most Christians in the first 500 years of the Christian Era actually believed in and Taught Universal Reconciliation or what was know back then as apocatastasis ... And after we came to realize what happened when Rome made Christianity the state religion and then every pagan in the land infiltrated the church because of its new authority and began interpolating their pagan teachings into the scriptures and dogmas of the Catholic Church, and relying on subtle alterations of the texts in new translations, they actually eventually even interpolated their pagan doctrines into the scriptures themselves.
2Ti 2:24-26
And the Lord's servant must not quarrel; instead, he must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful. Those who oppose him he must gently instruct, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth, and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will.
Your exactly right Ilene ... We are supposed to provide an example of the love of God for all people, being gentle, patient, and kind to those that oppose us, and not by threatening violence and being quarrelsome, trying to scare people into submission, resenting them for their lack of faith or because of their life styles.
It is God who gives repentance to people, they cannot simply choose to repent unless he works within them and causes them to repent. Only then will they come to their senses and acknowledge the truth and be freed from the devils trap, and from their bondage to sin and unbelief.
Unfortunately most Christians do not understand this, and they use militant tactics of fear and threats of endless violence to subject their opponents. And some Christians (there are a few in this forum) teach those who oppose them that God hates them, and that he will either torture them for ever, or torture them for a long time and then annihilate them. Truly pathetic ...
Peace ...
Yes! Exactly Ironmaw....great post. And it is truly pathetic....
I don't agree that "fear" is at the core of their persuasion. When I got saved, the two people talking to me about the Lord never even mentioned a possible eternity in hell, and they were not "UR", they were just plain old-fashioned Baptists. All they talked to me about was that it was possible to spend a wonderful eternity with God, and simply asked if I wanted that. Well I did, so I got saved. Neither they, nor I, are "UR". I don't buy the idea that "UR" people have an "exclusive" lock on a "love of God at it's core" and the "ET'ers" not...ANY Christian can have love of God...whether they are UR, ET,. or something else. (I do not believe a Christian must always fall into the category of "either UR or ET", one or the other, and nothing else) For example, if a Christian has no opinion one way or the other, then what are they?
As far as being "qualified" to be saved, only one thing qualifies anyone: believing in, and receiving, Jesus Christ as Lord. I agree with that!
Bud
Well, I'm glad you were not told about Hell. But if one says they have the Spirit and are content with the everlasting destruction of another, or worse yet, the eternal tormenting of another, then they don't have the same Spirit that Christ preached. A Christian only can fall into one category and that category is defined as the nature of God's own Holy Spirit.
Now notice your statement. You admit that there is a QUALIFICATION to be saved. Notice, I said One CANNOT Qualify to be saved.
The reason many "Christians" don't want to believe in hell is because it makes them uncomfortable.
With no hell, they can lead whatever lifestyle they choose.
Jesus said------" not everyone who says Lord,Lord, shall be saved"
Jesus said------" the lukewarm I shall vomit from my mouth"
When asked how to love Jesus, Jesus said-------" keep my commandments "
I don't believe in Hell anymore because I have learned more about it. And I know plenty of people that do believe in Hell and they still lead whatever lifestyle they choose.
Of course not everybody that is saying Lord, Lord is saved. But everyone will eventually be and everyone will be obeying God's Spiritual Law.
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Sorry Ilene ...
