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Interesting perspective. I definitely agree that we are responsible to repent of our sins and to live the best way we know how. I believe that God expects 100% from us. Unfortunately, 100% from the best of us is insufficient to gain us eternal life in God's presence. I don't think Jesus was saying we could make it on our own, and I have a feeling you weren't either.
Mankind can make it by performing the works of the son of man and the works of the Lord.
When Jesus said "This is the work of God , having faith in the One He sent", he was saying that what he was doing, spreading the word of the Lord (the good news) is doing the work of God and being faithful.
So it isn't that man can do it on it's own but by the word of God and Jesus. That is why Jesus said He keeps the word of the Lord and I do as well by spreading it.But Also keeping the words that Jesus used by making them a part of my speech/ posts. That is how man must keep His commandments.The commandments are His words as well as His works and His will. That is how to honor the Father and the son, by mimicking their words and serving them thus becoming children of God.
Scripture has it;
Psalms; 30:4 For the word of the Lord is upright, and all his works are truthful. He loves justice and right;
34:15The Lord has eyes for the just, and ears for there cry. When the just cry out, the Lord hears them, and rescues them from all distress.
34:22 The Lord redeems the life of his servants; none of those who take refuge in him incurs guilt..
86:11 Teach me your way, O Lord, that I may walk in your truth; give me an undivided heart to revere your name.
94:15 Justice will again be done with justice, and all the upright of heart will follow it.
97:6 The heavens proclaim the Lords righteousness; and all the peoples behold his glory.
97:11 Light dawns for the righteous, and joy for the upright in heart.
BK of JN;
I am the resurrection and the life; anyone who believes in me, even though he died, he will come to life, and everyone who lives and believes in me will never die.
Whoever loves his life loses it, and whoever hates his life in this world will preserve it with eternal life.
Whoever serves me must follow me, where I am, there will my servant be. The Lord will honor whoever serves me.
I am the light of the world. No one who follows me will ever walk in darkness, cause he will possess the light of life. Whoever walks in the dark does not know where he is going.
Once you have the light, keep faith in the light, and you will become a child of light.
Whoever believes in me believes not only in me but also in the one who sent me,
and whoever sees me sees the one who sent me.
I came into the world as its light, so that everyone who believes in me might not remain in the dark.
If anyone hears my words and does not keep them, I do not condemn him, for I did not come to condemn the world but to save it.
Whoever rejects me and does not accept my words he already has his judge namely the words I‘ve spoken that’s what will condemn him on the last day,
because I did not speak on my own, but the Lord who sent me commanded me what to say and speak. And since I know that his commandment means eternal life, what I say is spoken just as he instructed me.
Mankind can make it by performing the works of the son of man and the works of the Lord.
I've never heard that point of view expressed before. That's a new perspective to me, one that I can't accept, but interesting nevertheless. So the scripture that says, "even so, in Christ shall all be made alive" apparently means something quite different to you than it does to most Christians. (Or maybe you don't consider yourself to be a Christian; I'm not sure.)
I've always thought that Jesus Christ's sacrifice atoned for Adam's sin. From what a lot of people here are saying, it sounds like they disagree with that belief. If Jesus didn't atone for Adam's sin, whose sins did it atone for?
I didn't read the whole 12+ pages of this thread, but the topic is dear to my heart and I wanted to jump in.
Romans 5 compares Jesus Christ to Adam for a reason. Adam committed a sin and the result was condemnation and death for all mankind as a result.
Contrarily, Jesus Christ was a type of "negative Adam" whose obedience unto death caused mankind to be "rebooted" into justification.
That doesn't mean that sin doesn't still exist. But we all have now a New Life within us, which was put there by God in Christ Jesus. That's why He is Lord.
And that's why we'll all get there, "some through the waters, some through the flood, some through the fire but all through the blood." (George A Young)
All have been justified, not all have been made righteous (yet). God has to open the heart (like Lydia) in order for the individual to call Jesus "Lord." No man can call Jesus "Lord," but by the Holy Ghost.
Katie, I am a universalist. I do believe that all inherit righteousness in due time. And I completely believe that universalism is taught in the Bible. So let me recap what I believe:
I believe that all have received Adam's condemnation and are sinners as a result of His offence.
I believe that God is in complete charge and that everything that God does is ultimately going to result in Good.
I believe that God gave us to experience EVIL in order to truley appreciate and seek out GOOD. Without the EVIL, Good has far less significance.
I believe that God desires for their to be evil at this time. I believe that man of himself cannot perform Good and if man performs that which is GOOD then that GOODness is copyright of Jesus Christ and therefore and good we do would be a Glory to Him.
So I believe that Christ had to be born of a virgin so as not to be under the same curse that comes with being born of the body of Adam.
Well Trettep, you are wrong! You preach a false gospel, one that cannot be found in God's word. Not everyone will be saved. There are many scriptures that tell us this. If all are saved why would God have bothered to give us the Bible? Why pray? Why be good? If there is no retribution for the scumbags who kill and rape and intentionally tie young girls to their beds, pour gasoline on them, then toss a match, (the Cheshire, CT home invasion), then there is no God and no justice in this world.
Jesus shed His blood for all mankind to atone for sin, but the gift is conditional. He gives it freely but only to those who obey the gospel.
I don't want to sound like I'm being sarcastic here, but believe what you will. I'm sure better people than I have tried to convince you otherwise.
Well Trettep, you are wrong! You preach a false gospel, one that cannot be found in God's word. Not everyone will be saved. There are many scriptures that tell us this. If all are saved why would God have bothered to give us the Bible? Why pray? Why be good? If there is no retribution for the scumbags who kill and rape and intentionally tie young girls to their beds, pour gasoline on them, then toss a match, (the Cheshire, CT home invasion), then there is no God and no justice in this world.
Jesus shed His blood for all mankind to atone for sin, but the gift is conditional. He gives it freely but only to those who obey the gospel.
I don't want to sound like I'm being sarcastic here, but believe what you will. I'm sure better people than I have tried to convince you otherwise.
Katie
Katie, nothing in the scriptures indicate that there is not a consequence for sin. But that doesn't negate salvation. After all, we send people to jail and make them pay fines when they break the law. But once they get done serving their time and paying their fines they are free again.
So again, just because someone gets punished doesn't mean they can't be then saved.
If there is no retribution for the scumbags who kill and rape and intentionally tie young girls to their beds, pour gasoline on them, then toss a match, (the Cheshire, CT home invasion), then there is no God and no justice in this world.
I just wanted to ask, if these people were convicted, repented of their sins and accepted Jesus, would they not be accepted? What would you say, Katie? As a believer, I believe that all will eventually be convicted of their sins, repent of their sin, and accept Jesus as Lord and Savior, why, because He gave His life for all mankind and all were given to Him. He has all power, even over man's will, and evil, sin, rebellion. All belong to Him, the good and the bad. Jesus shed His blood for the vilest of sinners. And He has all power to win all hearts to Himself. Yes, even the human will can be convicted and converted by the power of God. I believe that he will deal with evil, that there is justice, and the result will be that all will see and know and know that they have done wrong, that they are sinners, that they are lost, and are in need of a Savior, but they will not be sinners forever and ever and ever. It isn't about eternal hell, it is about breaking the sinner to bring him to restoration. All belong to the Lord. He has been made heir of all. (Hebrews 1) He won't lose any. God bless.
I've never heard that point of view expressed before. That's a new perspective to me, one that I can't accept, but interesting nevertheless. So the scripture that says, "even so, in Christ shall all be made alive" apparently means something quite different to you than it does to most Christians. (Or maybe you don't consider yourself to be a Christian; I'm not sure.)
If Jesus said to go into the world as the Father sent Him, with the same purpose and message,why can't people accept it. The reason is that religion and Paul has corrupted it and that is why Elijah has to clean it up. Remember the scripture that says there will be a time when the son of man will be revealed, well this is that time.
"The son of man will come at a time you least expect."
"Stay awake or you won't know when your Lord will come".
I just wanted to ask, if these people were convicted, repented of their sins and accepted Jesus, would they not be accepted? What would you say, Katie? As a believer, I believe that all will eventually be convicted of their sins, repent of their sin, and accept Jesus as Lord and Savior, why, because He gave His life for all mankind and all were given to Him. He has all power, even over man's will, and evil, sin, rebellion. All belong to Him, the good and the bad. Jesus shed His blood for the vilest of sinners. And He has all power to win all hearts to Himself. Yes, even the human will can be convicted and converted by the power of God. I believe that he will deal with evil, that there is justice, and the result will be that all will see and know and know that they have done wrong, that they are sinners, that they are lost, and are in need of a Savior, but they will not be sinners forever and ever and ever. It isn't about eternal hell, it is about breaking the sinner to bring him to restoration. All belong to the Lord. He has been made heir of all. (Hebrews 1) He won't lose any. God bless.
Yes Shana, if anyone sincerely repents God will forgive them, but not all sinners repent. Where in the Bible does it say all sinners will eventually repent? God wants all to repent but that doesn't mean they will. God gave man free will. Where in the Bible does it say He takes it away when man refuses to obey. God wanted people to love and obey Him because they wanted to, not because He forced them to. There is absolutely no Biblical proof that the unrepentant will get a second chance. That is wishful thinking on the part of people who ascribe to this desructive and false doctrine.
Yes Shana, if anyone sincerely repents God will forgive them, but not all sinners repent. Where in the Bible does it say all sinners will eventually repent? God wants all to repent but that doesn't mean they will. God gave man free will. Where in the Bible does it say He takes it away when man refuses to obey. God wanted people to love and obey Him because they wanted to, not because He forced them to. There is absolutely no Biblical proof that the unrepentant will get a second chance. That is wishful thinking on the part of people who ascribe to this desructive and false doctrine.
Katie
Katiemygirl, do you believe that God should attempt to persuade everyone to repent? Isn't that fair, that all should at least get a chance?
Katiemygirl, do you believe that God should attempt to persuade everyone to repent? Isn't that fair, that all should at least get a chance?
Everyone IS given a chance. But they are NOT given a second chance.
The Bible teaches us that there is only one way to God and that is through Jesus Christ. Are you telling me that Islamists, Buddhists, and the people of other false world religions are saved? Either you believe what God's word says on the matter or you make up your own path to God.
Katie
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