Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
You are apparently missing the point. Adam didn't "eliminate sin" from the world at all. Rather, he was the first to introduce it into the world. Sin is not like olive skin, blue eyes or male baldness. It's not passed from parent to child through genetics.
Simply a total rejection of what God revealed in the Bible.
Genesis 3:15
And I will put enmitybetweenthee and the woman (Adam & Eve... so much for happy marriages)
enmity.... noun, plural -ties. a feeling or condition of hostility; hatred; illwill; animosity; antagonism. (Dictionary.com)
Genesis 6:5 (KJV) And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
Psalms 51:5
Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
Psalm 58:4
The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.
John 3:6
Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.
Does not a baby die? The baby has done nothing but it cannot die unless it has sin.
I hope you don't mind my butting in here, but I think your premise is wrong from the beginning.
Sin does not cause physical death. It causes spiritual death. A baby has no sin, therefore the baby cannot die spiritually. The baby is in a right relationship with God until that baby sins. Sin is what causes us to be separtated from God, and to spiritually die.
We all inherited the consequence of Adam's sin. We all physically die, not because we sin, but because that was one of the consequences of Adam's sin that we inherit, along with men working by the sweat of their brow and women bearing children in much pain. But no one inherits the sin of Adam, otherwise Ezekiel is a liar. (Ez. 18:20)
Katz is correct. Jesus atoned for Adam's sin already. The sin was forgiven. Unless you don't believe Jesus' blood had the power to forgive that sin, and I don't think you believe that.
Original sin is a doctrine that has been handed down from Augustine 400 A.D, and then Calvin a thousand years later. People just accept it, but if you really examine the scriptures, original sin is not there. Nowhere in the entire Bible does it say that we inherit Adam's sin. It is just an accepted doctrine, and a false one at that.
Now don't you think that such an important fact, something as essential as orginal sin would have been written down for us all to see and read? Would God have left something this important out? It's not written because there is no such thing.
Simply a total rejection of what God revealed in the Bible.
Genesis 3:15
And I will put enmitybetweenthee and the woman (Adam & Eve... so much for happy marriages)
enmity.... noun, plural -ties. a feeling or condition of hostility; hatred; illwill; animosity; antagonism. (Dictionary.com)
Genesis 6:5 (KJV) And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
Psalms 51:5
Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
Psalm 58:4
The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.
John 3:6
Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.
Twin,
I totally respect your opinion, but I wished you'd quit citing Psalm 58:4 as proof text for original sin. Unless you know of a baby who goes astray as soon as they are born and starts speaking lies, citing this verse is really quite ridiculous.
Psalm 51:5 can be interpreted in a different way that you do. I believe it is saying that David was born into a sinful environment.
The other two scriptures you posted prove nothing.
Original sin is an assumption made by many christian denominations. It is a doctrine that has been handed down for centuries and fully accepted without question. Mom and Dad believed it, so it's good enough for the kids.
Nowhere, and I mean NOWHERE can original sin be found in the Bible. It is an assumption based on obscure passages, which can have more than one interpretation. There is no clear cut scripture that teaches that babies inherit Adam's sin.
David said that he was conceived in sin. By virtue of existing, sin is in our lives.
It is entirely possible that you have interpreted this verse incorrectly. Many believe it to mean that David was born into a sinful environment. This interpretation has as much chance of being correct as yours (David was sinful when he was born) does. When weighed against all other scriptures, it is more likely that David was referring to the sinful environment he was conceived in.
Ezekiel flat out stated that the soul that sins dies. I have no reason to doubt Ezekiel. We do not inherit the sins of our parents. So how could we inherit Adam's sin. Besides, Jesus already atoned for Adam's sin.
There is no scripture anywhere in the entire Bible that says we inherit the sin of Adam. That is a false doctrine that has been passed down for centuries, and it has no solid scriptural proof.
Read it again, it says by ONE offence. That is Adam's offense. Were made sinners by that ONE offence. It doesn't matter if you believe that Children being born sinners is a myth. If you read the scriptures, there is no other reason for death except for sin. And therefore, the fact that babies die means they must have had sin. This confirms that fact that we of the body of Adam do indeed inherit his condemnation. And if we inherit his condemantion then we must also have attached the offence that goes with the condemnation - his sin.
See all in Adam die - because we all have his sin.
1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
trettep,
I have read it a thousand times my friend. But it also says for until the law, there was sin in the world, but sin is not imputed where there is no law.
Was Adam's sin the first sin?
As to 1 Cor 15 - Hosper en Adam - like Adam - not in him genealogically.
I have read it a thousand times my friend. But it also says for until the law, there was sin in the world, but sin is not imputed where there is no law.
Was Adam's sin the first sin?
As to 1 Cor 15 - Hosper en Adam - like Adam - not in him genealogically.
Many blessings.
Yes, Adam's sin was the first sin and it was imputed to him. Again, it says by Adam's offence all were made sinners. Let me ask you what was that offence that made everyone sinners?
I totally respect your opinion, but I wished you'd quit citing Psalm 58:4 as proof text for original sin. Unless you know of a baby who goes astray as soon as they are born and starts speaking lies, citing this verse is really quite ridiculous.
Psalm 51:5 can be interpreted in a different way that you do. I believe it is saying that David was born into a sinful environment.
The other two scriptures you posted prove nothing.
Original sin is an assumption made by many christian denominations. It is a doctrine that has been handed down for centuries and fully accepted without question. Mom and Dad believed it, so it's good enough for the kids.
Nowhere, and I mean NOWHERE can original sin be found in the Bible. It is an assumption based on obscure passages, which can have more than one interpretation. There is no clear cut scripture that teaches that babies inherit Adam's sin.
Katie
Any verse can be interpeted differently when a person wantonly doesn't agree with it.
Psalm 51:5 God specifically says "conceived" .... so David's sinful enviroment began in the womb at conception.
John 3:6 "Flesh gives birth to flesh" ... sinful humans parents gives birth to sinful human babies
Whatever. Simply a total rejection of your interpretation of what God revealed in the Bible. Nothing new there.
Which once again, you have no interest in truly knowing what others believe, you only look for responses that reinforce yours.
Then you wonder why you don't get "straight" answers..... you're not interested in what the truth is from the Bible.
Genesis 6:5 (KJV) And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
Psalms 51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
Psalm 58:4
The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.
Which once again, you have no interest in truly knowing what others believe, you only look for responses that reinforce yours.
Good grief. I started the thread as a debate. Obviously I expected a variety of positions. A number of people agree with you; a number of people agree with me. This is the same situation as in any debate.
Quote:
You're not interested in what the truth is from the Bible.
Psalm 58:4 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.
You keep posting this particular verse over and over again. Why? I saw it the first, second, and third times, and I simply interpret it differently than you do. Do you mean to say you actually interpret this literally? How many babies do you know who start telling lies as soon as they are born?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
