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Is this thread still going? I found something the other day that might clear up the confusion.
Ro 16:26 but now revealed and made known through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal God, so that all nations might believe and obey him—
You all may note that the verse refers to the "ETERNAL GOD". And I checked the Greek text, and the word here used is the Greek word "aionios" Now maybe some will want to argue that God is not eternal, and that is up to you. But the text here can mean nothing else but that God is eternal, and if God is eternal, and the Bible refers to life in heaven in heaven for believers as eternal also, that is without end, then, when this word "aionios" is used in all these cases, then it must mean, as God is without end, so is life in heaven, but also punishment in hell for the unbelievers.
Mock the truth while you can. The time is coming when you will be forced to face it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555
That was no threat. Just a statement of fact. Everyone without exception is going to know the truth. It is telling that you immediately assume that I implied that you are going to the lake of fire. You people accuse those who recognize as true what the Bible says concerning eternal condemnation with being obsessed with the subject. In reality, it is you Universalists who are obsessed with it in your attempt to discredit it.
And by the way, your uppercuts are very puny.
If you think no ETer on this board has ever told anyone that they're going to hell for not believing in it, you haven't been paying attention. You all believe those who don't accept the "truth" as you define it, are going to hell. Pretty hard to take your words as something other than an implied threat: "Believe what I say or else you're going to be sorry, forever and ever."
So what do you believe happens to people who "mock the truth" about eternal hell when they are "forced to face it", Mike? Any way you slice and dice it, it still sounds like a threat.
Is this thread still going? I found something the other day that might clear up the confusion.
Ro 16:26 but now revealed and made known through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal God, so that all nations might believe and obey him—
You all may note that the verse refers to the "ETERNAL GOD". And I checked the Greek text, and the word here used is the Greek word "aionios" Now maybe some will want to argue that God is not eternal, and that is up to you. But the text here can mean nothing else but that God is eternal, and if God is eternal, and the Bible refers to life in heaven in heaven for believers as eternal also, that is without end, then, when this word "aionios" is used in all these cases, then it must mean, as God is without end, so is life in heaven, but also punishment in hell for the unbelievers.
Ever hear of the expression "He is the God of the ages - the Rock of the ages" ... does that mean God is not eternal? No.
Just because aionios does not mean eternal, and God is described as aionios, does not disqualify or contradict that God is eternal.
God is also called the God of Isaac, Jacob, and Abraham. Does that mean He is not yours or my God as well?
whoa... ok first Nicodemus asked because he didn't know and why he didn't know is because this was brand new.
As for the process, you can believe what you want but I don't know where we are gong with this...
Mystic... do not marvel at what I said to you.... you must be born again.
Jesus was not talking about being “born again” as this phrase is commonly used in Christendom today. He was not offering the Christian New Birth to Nicodemus. He was addressing Nicodemus concerning the First Resurrection, a truth revealed in the Hebrew Scriptures (Isa 26:19, 32:15-17;Eze 37:12-14).
That is why Jesus said to Nicodemus, “You should not be surprised at my saying.” (See Jn. 3:7). Also Jesus reproved him even more strongly by saying, “You are Israel’s teacher, and do you not understand these things?” (See also Jn. 3: 10). These two statements show that Jesus EXPECTED Nicodemus to understand what he was saying.
If you think no ETer on this board has ever told anyone that they're going to hell for not believing in it, you haven't been paying attention. You all believe those who don't accept the "truth" as you define it, are going to hell. Pretty hard to take your words as something other than an implied threat: "Believe what I say or else you're going to be sorry, forever and ever."
So what do you believe happens to people who "mock the truth" about eternal hell when they are "forced to face it", Mike? Any way you slice and dice it, it still sounds like a threat.
The issue is not what some other person on this board may or may not have said. The issue is what I said. And I have already explained what I meant. But perhaps you believe that garbage that Thrillobyte posted on post #117.
And truth is not subject to various definitions. The Bible is quite clear that everyone is under condemnation unless they believe on Christ for eternal life.
The issue is not what some other person on this board may or may not have said. The issue is what I said. And I have already explained what I meant. But perhaps you believe that garbage that Thrillobyte posted on post #117.
And truth is not subject to various definitions. The Bible is quite clear that everyone is under condemnation unless they believe on Christ for eternal life.
This conversation is over.
So what do you believe happens to people who "mock the truth" (as you understand it) about eternal hell when they are "forced to face it", Mike?
Jesus was not talking about being “born again” as this phrase is commonly used in Christendom today. He was not offering the Christian New Birth to Nicodemus. He was addressing Nicodemus concerning the First Resurrection, a truth revealed in the Hebrew Scriptures (Isa 26:19, 32:15-17;Eze 37:12-14).
That is why Jesus said to Nicodemus, “You should not be surprised at my saying.” (See Jn. 3:7). Also Jesus reproved him even more strongly by saying, “You are Israel’s teacher, and do you not understand these things?” (See also Jn. 3: 10). These two statements show that Jesus EXPECTED Nicodemus to understand what he was saying.
Being a teacher in Israel he should have known what Jesus meant by extrapolation of Scripture if he had studied Scripture properly.
It is written,
JER 31:31-33 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a New Covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which My covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, says the LORD: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, says the LORD, I will put My law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts [not by the letter but by the Spirit]; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Is this thread still going? I found something the other day that might clear up the confusion.
Ro 16:26 but now revealed and made known through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal God, so that all nations might believe and obey him—
You all may note that the verse refers to the "ETERNAL GOD". And I checked the Greek text, and the word here used is the Greek word "aionios" Now maybe some will want to argue that God is not eternal, and that is up to you. But the text here can mean nothing else but that God is eternal, and if God is eternal, and the Bible refers to life in heaven in heaven for believers as eternal also, that is without end, then, when this word "aionios" is used in all these cases, then it must mean, as God is without end, so is life in heaven, but also punishment in hell for the unbelievers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman
Ever hear of the expression "He is the God of the ages - the Rock of the ages" ... does that mean God is not eternal? No.
Just because aionios does not mean eternal, and God is described as aionios, does not disqualify or contradict that God is eternal.
God is also called the God of Isaac, Jacob, and Abraham. Does that mean He is not yours or my God as well?
The grammatical structure of Romans 16:26 does not allow it to mean the God of the ages.
Rom. 16:26 says 'tou aióniou theou' - 'the eternal God'. Aióniou is an adjective which modifies the noun theou.
The noun Theou is limited to the meaning of the adjective which modifies it. If aióniou is limited in duration, then of necessity, so is the noun Theou. Therefore it is grammatically impossible for Romans 16:26 to mean that God is 'the God of the ages' with the idea that the ages end, but that He is still eternal.
For Romans 16:26 to mean that God is the God of the ages, the grammatical structure would have to be as follows:
Ho theos tou aiónas - 'the God of the ages'. Aiónas - ages would be a noun rather than an adjective. Since in Romans 16:26 aióniou is an adjective, and not a noun, it cannot be translated 'of the ages.'
If the adjective 'aioniou' is restricted to a finite time period called an "age," and if 'aioniou' modifies 'Theou' - 'God,' as it does in Romans 16:26, then the duration of God's existence is an age. He is therefore not an everlasting or eternal God, but only an 'age lasting' God.
Anyone who knows grammar, and respects it, would never attempt to translate Romans 16:26 as 'the God of the ages.' It is properly translated, 'the eternal God', or 'the everlasting God' because God is eternal.
And if you try to give it the meaning of 'the age lasting God', you are still faced with the fact that God is eternal, and so that age has to be an eternal age.
Last edited by Michael Way; 11-21-2012 at 08:13 PM..
Being a teacher in Israel he should have known what Jesus meant by extrapolation of Scripture if he had studied Scripture properly.
It is written,
JER 31:31-33 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a New Covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which My covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, says the LORD: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, says the LORD, I will put My law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts [not by the letter but by the Spirit]; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
How could Nicodemus extrapolate from this passage the idea of being "born again" in a Christian sense given that the idea wasn't known at the time?
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