The phrase 'Forever and Ever' means 'unending', as a simple comparison shows. / The Various Expressions of Eternity. (mystic, Jesus)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
And yes, the Bible does say that punishment in the lake of fire is eternal. Matthew 25:41,46, 2 Thess. 1:9, and Revelation 20:10
Only in a darkened mind do those verses say "punishment in the lake of fire is eternal."
Matthew 25:31-46 is not even about the lake of fire. That judgment is 1000 years before the Great White throne judgment.
2 Thess.1:9 is not about the lake of fire and not about "eternal punishment."
Revelation 20:10 is not even about the lake of fire but about the destruction of Babylon. And it is for the eons of the eons.
(Darby) And the devil who deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where are both the beast and the false prophet; and they shall be tormented day and night for the ages of ages.
(LITV) And the Devil leading them astray was thrown into the Lake of Fire and Brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet were. And they were tormented day and night to the ages of the ages.
(WNT) and the Devil, who had been leading them astray, was thrown into the Lake of fire and sulphur where the Wild Beast and the false Prophet were, and day and night they will suffer torture until the Ages of the Ages.
(YLT) and the Devil, who is leading them astray, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where are the beast and the false prophet, and they shall be tormented day and night--to the ages of the ages.
When at the end of the Millennium, all rule and all authority and power has been put down, and all enemies have been put under His feet, then Jesus will deliver up the kingdom to the Father and then continue to reign on the throne beside the Father as stated in Rev. 22:1. His reign does not end. The nature of His reign simply changes and continues throughout the eternal future.
Mike, I don't know where you are getting your information but in Revelation on the new earth there are still kings and nations, powers and authority. Therefore 1 Corinthians 15:22-28 takes place after Revelation has run its course.
1 Cor. 15:24-27 was already addressed at the bottom of post #66.
Jesus Christ is seen in Rev. 22:1 on the throne beside the Father, after His Millennial reign ends.
When at the end of the Millennium, all rule and all authority and power has been put down, and all enemies have been put under His feet, then Jesus will deliver up the kingdom to the Father and then continue to reign on the throne beside the Father as stated in Rev. 22:1. His reign does not end. The nature of His reign simply changes and continues throughout the eternal future.
is that when God becomes all in all? after the millennial reign?
Only in a darkened mind do those verses say "punishment in the lake of fire is eternal."
Matthew 25:31-46 is not even about the lake of fire. That judgment is 1000 years before the Great White throne judgment.
2 Thess.1:9 is not about the lake of fire and not about "eternal punishment."
Revelation 20:10 is not even about the lake of fire but about the destruction of Babylon. And it is for the eons of the eons.
(Darby) And the devil who deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where are both the beast and the false prophet; and they shall be tormented day and night for the ages of ages.
(LITV) And the Devil leading them astray was thrown into the Lake of Fire and Brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet were. And they were tormented day and night to the ages of the ages.
(WNT) and the Devil, who had been leading them astray, was thrown into the Lake of fire and sulphur where the Wild Beast and the false Prophet were, and day and night they will suffer torture until the Ages of the Ages.
(YLT) and the Devil, who is leading them astray, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where are the beast and the false prophet, and they shall be tormented day and night--to the ages of the ages.
Just curious, have you ever found an instance outside the bible where "ages of the ages" in Greek was referring to eternity?
Mike, I don't know where you are getting your information but in Revelation on the new earth there are still kings and nations, powers and authority. Therefore 1 Corinthians 15:22-28 takes place after Revelation has run its course.
The information is in the word of God.
There will be nations for all eternity. But they will not be in opposition to Christ. It is His enemies which are put under His feet. Jesus Christ will reign forever. It is only the nature of His reign which changes. It does not come to an end.
It is after the end of the Millennium that the great white throne judgment is held and Satan and his angels, and all unbelievers are sent into the lake of fire forever (Revelation 20:10-15). And after that happens, Jesus Christ is on the throne with the Father (Revelation 22:1).
***** The last enemy to be defeated is death as stated in 1 Corinthians 15:26. Death is thrown into the lake of fire after the end of the Millennium as stated in Revelation 20:14. *****
And after that, Jesus Christ is on the throne with the Father as stated in Revelation 22:1.
Only in a darkened mind do those verses say "punishment in the lake of fire is eternal."
Matthew 25:31-46 is not even about the lake of fire. That judgment is 1000 years before the Great White throne judgment.
2 Thess.1:9 is not about the lake of fire and not about "eternal punishment."
Revelation 20:10 is not even about the lake of fire but about the destruction of Babylon. And it is for the eons of the eons.
(Darby) And the devil who deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where are both the beast and the false prophet; and they shall be tormented day and night for the ages of ages.
(LITV) And the Devil leading them astray was thrown into the Lake of Fire and Brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet were. And they were tormented day and night to the ages of the ages.
(WNT) and the Devil, who had been leading them astray, was thrown into the Lake of fire and sulphur where the Wild Beast and the false Prophet were, and day and night they will suffer torture until the Ages of the Ages.
(YLT) and the Devil, who is leading them astray, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where are the beast and the false prophet, and they shall be tormented day and night--to the ages of the ages.
The darkened mind belongs to those who twist the Scriptures to avoid facing the truth.
Revelation 20:10 is indeed about the lake of fire.
Revelation 20:10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
Matthew 25:41 "Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;
Satan is thrown into the lake of fire AFTER the end of the Millennium. He is imprisoned in the abyss (the abyss is not the lake of fire) for the duration of the Millennium (Rev. 20:2), and then temporarily released at the end of the Millennium to deceive the nations as per Rev. 20:7, and then thrown into the lake of fire forever as per Rev. 20:10.
The beast and the false prophet will have been in the lake of fire for a thousand years before Satan joins them there. The beast and the false prophet are thrown into the lake of fire at the beginning of the Millennium as per Rev. 19:20.
Last edited by Michael Way; 11-15-2012 at 03:47 PM..
Rev 11:15
And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!
1 Cor 15
25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet.
26 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death.
27 For “He has put all things under His feet.” But when He says “all things are put under Him,” it is evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted.
28 Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.
So we are told that Christ reigns "forever and ever", yet He only reigns till He has put all enemies under His feet - the last enemy being death - upon which ultimately the Son ultimately subjects Himself to God - so that God is all in all.
When God is all in all, there is no more need for reigning as all are now one with God.
So how to explain Luke 1:33? A better translation:
Luke 1:33 His father, and He shall reign over the house of Jacob for the eons. And of His kingdom there shall be no consummation.
Christ reigns for the eons, but that which is produced ie. His Kingdom, continues on without end, without any further reigning required (as God will be all in all).
Therefore the KJV translation of Rev 11:15 "forever and ever" is INCORRECT.
A wonderful post, legoman. And just on the heels of my having listened to some very moving excerpts read aloud from Anne Frank's diary. She was very spiritually astute, no doubt about that.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
