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What this tells me is that their regard for God is conditional. God is only praised on their terms.
After the 5,000 were fed, Jesus spoke about eating His flesh and drinking His blood - to which His disciples grumbled that it was a difficult statement - and many did not follow Christ after that.
They were OK when the were being fed and healed - but when they heard something they didn't like, many left. The responses above seem to be very similar. The people wanted Christ on their terms - feed them, heal them, etc. Here, it's all about love, while neglecting His justice.
I guess God is supposed to love unconditionally - but you are allowed to be conditional in your worship of Him. Wonder what God thinks about that...
I think you too would have walked away with a full belly, if like most that did, your understanding was not
opened.
God is just, but his mercy truimphs over judgement. For some unknown reason this is something many Christians that believe like your good self refuse to eat of yourself, and do not want a God reigning in their lives that is so.
I think you too would have walked away with a full belly, if like most that did, your understanding was not
opened.
God is just, but his mercy truimphs over judgement. For some unknown reason this is something many Christians that believe like your good self refuse to eat of yourself, and do not want a God reigning in their lives that is so.
Yes, but only for those who confess Him, in this life. The reason we believe that is not unknown, to you especially. As Jesus said, "It is written...".
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God is only praised because He is praiseworthy. We do not abdicate our moral sensibilities because it is God. God is the source of our moral sensibilities. He couldn't possibly want us to ignore the moral values He gave us on a bogus pretext using absurd human excuses that "God's ways are not our ways" or "God is mysterious" or "Whatever God does is moral and good regardless what it looks like to us." Our God does NOT say "Do as I say . . . NOT as I do" . . . that is for human priests and preachers. We have morals BECAUSE God "wrote them in our hearts" and expects us to use them to discern Good and Evil under the guidance of His Holy Spirit (Comforter). You can abdicate that responsibility . . . we won't.Christ exemplified that unambiguously. He loved us ALL unconditionally . . . even His torturers and murderers!!! We will believe Christ about the true nature of our God. You can wonder what He thinks about that if you want.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo
I believe you forgot this response:
What you don't seem to understand is that, yes, God's ways ARE higher than man's ways. Man's idea of "justice" is more often than not, punitive, and excessively so. It's a vengeful mindset that doesn't seem to understand that no matter how much you punish a person, it won't change the affect of whatever wrong they've done on their soul, and it won't heal the damage their wrong-doing has caused their victims.
Whereas the justice which proceeds from God who IS love, is always disciplinary and corrective, and will accomplish it's purpose. God does desire all to be saved (healed at the soul level, not just the physical) and God's justice is part of the process which achieves that salvation. And what would be more healing to a victim then to have the assurance that the person who has harmed them will never harm them again when God's love has changed the heart of the wrong-doer.
Unlike mankind's impotent vengeful punishment, God's loving justice is powerful and achieves God's desire... which is to heal all, both perpetrator and victim.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps
I think you too would have walked away with a full belly, if like most that did, your understanding was not
opened.
God is just, but his mercy truimphs over judgement. For some unknown reason this is something many Christians that believe like your good self refuse to eat of yourself, and do not want a God reigning in their lives that is so.
Please take note that at this point, I am not arguing with you. God is using me to show you that you consider your ways above His ways. That if God does not meet your conditions, you would not worship Him. You need to stop and think about that.
In the end, God is going to do whatever He is going to do with those in this earthly life who did not believe in His Son - regardless of what you or I say. This is no longer a matter of who God is - but now it's a matter of who you will trust, God or yourself? Will you give God the latitude (in your minds) to do what He wants with the creation He made - even if you don't like it? If you are true people of God, you should worship Him regardless of whether or not punishment is forever and ever.
Wrong. What was true for our savage ancestors is not true for us. God has "written in our hearts" under the New Covenant and we have His Holy Spirit (Comforter) within our consciousness to guide us to the truth. YOU are accepting God using the beliefs and superstitions of our ignorant savage ancestors (who had neither) . . . as described in the OT under the veil of ignorance (blind minds). We accept God on Christ's terms . . . as He lifted the veil of ignorance and revealed the Father to us unambiguously by His teachings, example, and even in death.
Did something change between the old and new testaments where the people crossed the line to no longer be considered "ignorant savage ancestors"?
Whatever status you decide to classify people during that time period, God doesn't change. He made the statement in Isaiah 55. It's still true today. Has there been progressive revelation? Yep. But that does not mean we can fully depend upon what wells up in our spirits. We still need the written word to ensure we are in line with the things of God.
Please take note that at this point, I am not arguing with you. God is using me to show you that you consider your ways above His ways. That if God does not meet your conditions, you would not worship Him. You need to stop and think about that.
Have you considered that God is using others to show you that you assume the the worst of man's [vengeful, impotent] ways to be above God's [loving, powerful, merciful, just] ways?
Have you considered that you think the mercy of many people (who would never torture another human being, much less for eternity) is greater and more all-encompassing than the mercy of God? Do you really believe that God would inspire men to have hearts of mercy greater than He himself? Do you really believe that the created could possibly, by any stretch of the imagination, exhibit love and mercy greater than the Creator? Please, stop and think about that.
People seem to come here to explain what they do not like about Jesus, and they go on to explain what kind of god they worship. Sadly what they describe is only a product of their imagination, as such god only exists in their minds. It is not the God of Abraham, Isac and Jacob.
“Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few"
Please take note that at this point, I am not arguing with you. God is using me to show you that you consider your ways above His ways. That if God does not meet your conditions, you would not worship Him. You need to stop and think about that.
In the end, God is going to do whatever He is going to do with those in this earthly life who did not believe in His Son - regardless of what you or I say. This is no longer a matter of who God is - but now it's a matter of who you will trust, God or yourself? Will you give God the latitude (in your minds) to do what He wants with the creation He made - even if you don't like it? If you are true people of God, you should worship Him regardless of whether or not punishment is forever and ever.
Actually when Jesus Christ opened my understanding I saw that all the conditions I created and put on myself, God and neighbor as a staunch fundamentalist, all the preconceived ideas of God I had as a Fundamentalist,all the misconceptions I had of God as a fundamentalist,all the misconceptions i had of myself as a fundamentalist,all which came by my Fundamentalist mindset of the bible, rather than by the Christ within, was what I needed not to stop and think about, but repent from.
What you are also failing to see is, that wherever Jesus Christ went he upset and offended those like yourself who thought sinners should be punished, he continually ate with sinners, forgave sinners, showed love,grace and mercy to sinners, and spoke life not condemnation to them.
Evangelical bible believing fundamentalists will suffer greater reforming punishment than those who they believe are condemned by Him.The god who is worshipped and adored as a savior from eternal hell is a devil, Jesus never taught that he is a savior from eternal hell.
The scriptures are inspired of God, they are not God, they are also not the word of God with conditions,Jesus Christ is the word of God.
Know you not that Jesus Christ( The Word of God) is in you ?. If you don't know, the bible will spiritually kill you and spiritually kill others through you.
You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are....... How ? By converting them to a belief that the bible Is the word of God and not knowing Jesus Christ within you
Did something change between the old and new testaments where the people crossed the line to no longer be considered "ignorant savage ancestors"?
Yes . . . God has "written in our hearts" as part of the New Covenant . . . they did not have that. And Christ has been reborn as Spirit (resurrected) and His Holy Spirit (Comforter) is available withn our consciousness to guides us to the truth God has written there.They didn't have that either.
Quote:
Whatever status you decide to classify people during that time period, God doesn't change. He made the statement in Isaiah 55. It's still true today. Has there been progressive revelation? Yep. But that does not mean we can fully depend upon what wells up in our spirits. We still need the written word to ensure we are in line with the things of God.
God said no such thing. Our ignorant savage ancestors did when interpreting God's inspirations using their "blind minds" (veil of ignorance).
Hebrews 8:7-13 King James Version (KJV)
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
1 John 2:27 (King James Version)
27But the anointing which ye have received of Him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in Him.
2 Corinthians 3:14-17
But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
15But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
16Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
17Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
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