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Fred Astaire would be proud of you the way you dance around stating what you believe the message of salvation is.
You are the only one here so confused about what it is. You have gone as far as claiming to have believed in existence in hell, only to later say you never believed it. I know you want to sound credible, but once you start making stuff up, it is difficult to remember what you have said, and you end up getting exposed. That is what happened to you.
Salvation is about LIFE. If you don't have LIFE, then what do you have? You claim that if you don't have LIFE, then you have life anyway, but the Bible teaches otherwise.
Jesus said: For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
It is telling that when I read the above verse I see LIFE, but you start talking about DEATH. The only twist is the fact that although you are compelled to talk about it, you claim others believe it, but you don't. It is called projection.
You are the only one here so confused about what it is. You have gone as far as claiming to have believed in existence in hell, only to later say you never believed it. I know you want to sound credible, but once you start making stuff up, it is difficult to remember what you have said, and you end up getting exposed. That is what happened to you.
Salvation is about LIFE. If you don't have LIFE, then what do you have? You claim that if you don't have LIFE, then you have life anyway, but the Bible teaches otherwise.
Jesus said: For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
It is telling that when I read the above verse I see LIFE, but you start talking about DEATH. The only twist is the fact that although you are compelled to talk about it, you claim others believe it, but you don't. It is called projection.
True, salvation is being saved from something, bible salvation is salvation from sin that we might enjoy the abundant life of God, salvation is not being saved from eternal hell because you have sinned ?. Would you agree with this reasonable statement ?.
Do you believe we are saved from our sin, eternal hell or both? If both, do you not think in sharing the message you believe to be the truth that you should make this clear that it is both or should the hearer be left in the dark about what they are saved from and discover it for himself ?.
So yes i am confused with your belief that we are saved from eternal hell, but in sharing with others that they need to be saved, telling them what they are saved from(eternal hell)is not necessary.
Sorry, i have a difficult time with your double speech.
Sorry, i have a difficult time with your double speech.
Unfortunately I am not going to keep repeating stuff to you. Every time I say something, you build your own version of what I said, and then pretend you can't understand your own version. If you made an effort to understand what other people are telling you, we could continue, but since you are only interested in playing silly games, the conversation is over.
Can the creator of the universe force people to come to Him, and obey Him. Of course. Could He have done that with the Jews? Of course, but He didn't. He allowed them to go against His desire. It is not that God is not able to do such things, it is that He simply chose not to. It is a matter of Biblical fact, not a matter of opinion. People here would rather deny Jesus said what He said than admit they were wrong in any degree.
The question is simple. Did Jesus get His desire those days when Jews refused to come to Him? Jesus said He did not. He also did NOT force then. Those people are now dead, so it is too late for them. Will future generations be better off? So far no luck, but the book of Romans says there will be a generation in the future who will come to Him.
I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That to me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things on earth, and things under the earth
And that every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.
Now you might want to add that they will be forced to acknowledge that he is lord, or that they are forced to confess him lord before they are thrown into the lake of fire, but that would be you toeing the party line of fundamentalist Christianity of adding to the scripture eternal hell, every time you see the word saved or salvation.
These scriptures alone prove that God accomplishes his desire, for no man according to the scriptures can say Jesus is Lord but by the holy Ghost. You have 1 verse out of thousands within the scripture that blinds(yes the bible does blind people) you from seeing this Hebrews 9:27, again something you accepted without any knowledge of what it really is saying when you first believed, for in believing you were saved from eternal hell, you read eternal hell like we all did into everything that spoke of death.
You will never understand the scriptures until you understand they are not about a bunch of chosen people called Israel, but about you and you being subjected to this world for this purpose.......pcamps was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
Because pcamps also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the son of God.
Originally Posted by twin.spin You have completely got the reason totally out of whack if you think Jesus came to save us from ourselves.
Originally Posted by twin.spin I understand Pleroo that God's will is for anyone who remains wicked will never see or experience what the righteous has
The two statements are addressing two different subject matters, thus not meant to be combined.
The first is addressing
the false concept you're trying to establish which excludes that factual existence of hell being the assigned place of the wicked \ unrighteous \ those on the left of Jesus \ the many that enter through the gate on the path to destruction \ unbeliever \ children of the devil \ the children symbolized by Hagar.
The second is addressing the "will never" that Jesus often speaks about
the truthful fact that when Jesus says the fore mentioned description of unbelievers will never experience nor be included with the righteous \ those on the right of Jesus \ the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it \ believer \ saints \ children of God \ the children symbolized by Sarah
[indent]Mark 3:29 "but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will neverbe forgiven; they are guilty of an eternal sin.”
Mark 10:15 "Truly I tell you, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it.”
John 8:51 "Very truly I tell you, whoever obeys my word will never see death.”
John 11:26 "and whoever lives by believing in me will never die. Do you believe this?”
Twin ... I understand what you believe:
that for you and other people who believe as you do (that Jesus died on a cross as a sacrifice to appease the wrath of God) you are
1. forgiven for your sin and saved from what you think is the ultimate consequence of sin -- eternal hell -- and
2. after death, you will all be transformed and will no longer sin, and
that those who do not believe as you do will never be forgiven and will never be transformed but will remain wicked and unrepentant forever, and therefore tormented forever.
Remember, I believed what you believed once, too, so this is not news to me.
That is why I found it so shocking that you seemed to be claiming that people were not going to be saved from sin itself, but only from hell. It wasn't me trying to change any focus, it was me trying to figure out why you seemed to be contradicting yourself and what I know to be your beliefs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Twin
As so you find no other way to confront your opposition to the well established position that UR declares itself by finding God unjust by attempting to change the focus. This isn't about me and how it appears to you as something contradictory and having some kind of luck.
So, thanks for clearing up the misunderstanding.
When I speak of Christ being raised in US, you find that offensive because it contradicts what you believe. I "forget" sometimes that you are sold out to the idea that there is a huge gulf separating you (and those who believe as you do) and I (and others who don't believe as you do). Because I am convinced that the God who is love has bridged that gulf -- it's just that many don't know that yet.
We simply have a very different mindset.
Quote:
It's solely about universalism's satanical accusation of God not being fair and your support of the unsupportable claims being spewed out for no apparent reason other than Jesus' message concerning the damnation of the unbeliever doesn't make you feel happy etc.
The belief in UR is damnable not because of it's denial of a place called hell .... it's damnable because of it's alternative gospel message for the ears of the unbeliever who trusts in that message. God also damns the person who preaches an alternative salvation message for that is going against his designed will for people to be saved.
Preachers of UR will be damned Pleroo ... not for what it rejects, but for what the alternative saving message is offering.
The saving message is that God is in Christ reconciling the world to Godself, not counting our sins against us. Be reconciled to that truth and you will experience being reconciled to God.
You will never understand the scriptures until you understand they are not about a bunch of chosen people called Israel, but about you and you being subjected to this world for this purpose
And you will never understand them, because you refuse to. You'd rather believe www.tentmaker.com talking points.
Unfortunately I am not going to keep repeating stuff to you. Every time I say something, you build your own version of what I said, and then pretend you can't understand your own version. If you made an effort to understand what other people are telling you, we could continue, but since you are only interested in playing silly games, the conversation is over.
That is because you will not answer a straight forward question like this one. What do you believe you are saved from? I know what you believe you are saved from, we all know, but you will not say it purely because it pulls the rug from everything you have posted on this thread. Why wouldn't you take the opportunity to openly say what you are saved from if that is what you believe the gospel is ? . The silly games Finn Jarber are being played by you, by being economical about what it is you truly believe.
Why wouldn't you take the opportunity to openly say what you are saved from if that is what you believe the gospel is ?
The gospel? I believe the gospel is about Jesus Christ forgiving the sins of those who believe, so we can have eternal LIFE. But then again, I already told you that. I don't need to worry about what would happen of I didn't have LIFE. You keep asking everyone what they are saved from, and people keep answering you, and you keep asking again, and again, because you just can't get it out of your head. You ask, and you look for support from other URs, but it just won't leave your mind. Why? If you knew what you are saved into, you would not have to worry about what happens without it. But your actions probe you are deeply concerned. You project your concerns all day long.
You can't stop thinking about what salvation is FROM, because you fear the very thing you claim you do not believe now, and never believed before. Otherwise it would make no sense to even bring it up, let alone go on about it every day of the year.
I hope you enjoyed the Orange Bowl. I sure did. Good night.
Matthew 7:13
Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it.
Indeed, there are many who will enter through the narrow gate, once the wickedness of their heart has been cleansed.
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