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I understand that you're an atheist and this is your viewpoint. Fair enough. But since this question was posed in the Christianity Forum, "Religion, God, the Bible and sin" have everything to do with it. If this question were posed in the atheist forum, then the context of the question would be posed towards atheistic beliefs. The responses expected there would be, "There is no God and no sin so do what you want. It's your life." But, since this is being asked in the Christian forum, the context of the question logically concludes that God and the scriptures be considered in the responses.
You said "Most people would say no," to the items you listed being sin or not. I agree with you that many (I don't know about "most") people would not consider a sex-change (as well as the other NON-medically necessary procedures) a sin. We live in a world that becomes more humanistic each day. However, it's not people who determine what sin is. If it were, nothing would be sinful because people are rebellious and want to do whatever they want to do.
But it's God who has already declared what sin is and isn't. That's why so many rebel against God because they don't want to be told what to do. Sin is determined by God's standards so, sin has everything to do with God and the scriptures. That's just simple logic.
And the scriptures have a lot to say about appropriate sexual and gender behavior. Nowhere in the Bible does it mention that a person's gender is negotiable or optional. Scriptures affirm and give value to both genders. And from everything the scriptures have to say about gender and sexuality, it's completely safe to assess that gender distortion and reassignment is not a biblically acceptable practice.
So yes. A sex change operation is a sin. It's also true that there are people who are born with physical gender defects where there are a mix of male and female organs. Those aren't "God's mistakes" but evidence that we live in a world that's been deeply affected and marred by sin. Is a sex change operation a sin in these cases? Well, I don't see that a person's gender is being changed when both male and female organs already exist. In these cases I wouldn't dare presume to know the answer. I leave that in God's hands.
Certainly I see differences, just as there is a difference between spinal bifida and a cleft palate. Beyond that, no - I see no substantive difference whatsoever, no moral line that is crossed. I'm just curious to learn why Christians do. Can you explain it to me?
Considering I can choose whom I have sex with but I can't choose whether or not I had a cleft palate or was born with a horrible disease...yah, I see an issue.
Matthew 19:4-6
4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,
5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
Mikelee, that is talking about marriage, not having a sex change.
I read your other thing about having a sex change being a sin.
However, i hope you read what i wrote above on it.
If a person's SOUL is to be saved, not the flesh (Jesus did not die for your body but your soul and sins that affect the soul)… then it is not a sin to have an operation. However, what the person does with that body CAN be a sin or not.
If a person had a sex change, but remained celibate, how is that a sin?
If any one commits fornication, whether it be man/man, woman/woman, man/woman, that is a sin, no matter what body is doing it, nor with whom. Fornication is sex without marriage.
Jesus said to the Pharisees that its what comes out of a man that defiles him, not what goes into a man (they were accusing him of eating food that was not ok according to their laws). Jesus said what comes out of a man (sins) is what defiles him. Sin comes from within a person - their soul and evil desires, not their physical body.
Considering I can choose whom I have sex with but I can't choose whether or not I had a cleft palate or was born with a horrible disease...yah, I see an issue.
Why are you changing the subject? Are you just trying to derail the thread so that it gets closed down? We're not talking about having sex, we're talking about gender change surgery. If you want to talk about people having sex, please start another thread about that topic. People are trying to have a sincere discussion here about the original topic.
Why are you changing the subject? Are you just trying to derail the thread so that it gets closed down? We're not talking about having sex, we're talking about gender change surgery. If you want to talk about people having sex, please start another thread about that topic. People are trying to have a sincere discussion here about the original topic.
Thats the point! People equate certain things with the ACT of sex, when it is not the ACT of sex. Thats like people who are gay are automatically doomed to hell, but being gay is NOT a sex act, it is what a person feels they are attracted to the same gender. A person can be gay but be celibate and never have sex, and that person to me has not committed a sin.
It is what we DO or THINK when we ACT UPON a temptation that makes something a sin. Even having a sexual thought is not sin, because it is just a TEMPTATION.
So i think people often mix up HAVING sex with changing their body. I think that is wrong to mix up the two.
now, where it would be a sin, is if the person's conscience condemned them, for some reason, or they felt they would be disobeying God, and they went ahead and did it. But thats also for any other choice we make in this world. According to God, a "good" man going to church 2 times a week, doing good deeds, but yet, being a liar is just as much sinful as a person who commits adultery, by the way.
I'd like someone to show me Scripture where it says having a sex change is a sin. It probably does not say there because i have never read it. However, you can get a clue by other Scriptures. Someone show me please.
sex is not a sin. lust, fornication, adultery, etc are sins; but not sex between a husband and wife.
God gave us this strong biological drive ultimately to reproduce and make sure the human race propagates. Within the institution of marriage, it is beautiful. Outside that it is destructive.
It is to be enjoyed though between a husband and wife and is a gift of God.
To have a sex change in my opinion is suggesting God got it wrong in the beginning. So yes I think it is sinning. It's a little different than going to the gym or brushing one's teeth.
So is changing jobs a sin? Since God placed us in the "wrong" job?
Divorce??
Dieting?
Schizophrenia? (is this God playing both sides?)
other mental illnesses?
Isn't it just possible that STUFF happens and God has way more important issues to deal with than who is sleeping with who and we a people just need to embrace FREE WILL??
. If one is correcting something wrong, that's one thing.
That is what they are *all* doing. Their bodies indicate the wrong gender based on what they know themselves inside to be. They are correcting their outer body to match their inner identity.
Surely you wouldn't stop considering yourself to be the gender you are if you woke up tomorrow with a different set of genitals. Most of us are fortunate enough that our gender coincides with our genitals. Not everyone is. How about empathy and compassion instead of judgment?
To have a sex change in my opinion is suggesting God got it wrong in the beginning.
So you believe that anything humans change about themselves that makes them different from how they were born or naturally came to be is wrong because it is suggesting God got it wrong in the beginning?
Does this include such things cochlear implants - because it would mean God intended the child to be deaf? If not, how do you determine which things are acceptable changes and which are suggesting God got it wrong in the beginning? What would be the guidelines for that?
Well, first, let us determine what God expects of our bodies...
Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own, for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body.(1 Cor. 6:19-20)
So if Jesus is our Lord, our bodies are to be used for His glory and not our own glory.
1 Thessalonians 4 says, 'For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you abstain from sexual immorality; that each one of you know how to control his own body in holiness and honor...'
So holiness, honor and glory toward God. These are the attributes Christians must follow when conducting themselves. If someone desires to get a cosmetic operation, it is the reasoning that makes it a sin or not. Why do you wish to alter your outside appearance? If it is not medical, then it would be a personal, self-serving desire. It's not about fairness, or happiness, as God is perfectly fair and our happiness is not found in physical pleasures of this world but in the serving of the Most Holy God!
Jesus taught us not to worry about our outward appearance:
“Therefore I tell you, do not be anxious about your life, what you will eat or what you will drink, nor about your body, what you will put on. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothing? Look at the birds of the air: they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not of more value than they? And which of you by being anxious can add a single hour to his span of life? And why are you anxious about clothing? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow: they neither toil nor spin, yet I tell you, even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these." (Matt 6:25-34)
In Romans, Paul tells us to, 'put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to gratify its desires.'
and also, 'present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God.'
It is not for me to judge as each individual case should be discussed within their church and elders, but I cannot see how getting such an operation could be used to bring glory and honor to God. The same goes for enhancement surgery, plastic surgery or any other procedure that is intended for cosmetic reasons. As a follower of Christ, our desire should be to reflect Jesus in our lives, not to reflect ourselves.
John said, 'He must increase, but I must decrease.'
A Christian is humble, holy, respectful, loving and always taking pleasure in serving God. A Christian places God before themselves in all aspects of their lives.
God bless.
Last edited by mensaguy; 07-27-2014 at 02:17 PM..
Reason: Red is reserved for Moderator actions. Hope Blue is OK.
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