Christian values - cancelling a funeral because deceased was gay (myths, preach)
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But Jerwade, the scuttlebutt in Vizio's small town is that the 78 year old woman is SINNING. Of course its their business, and Vizio's too. Their delicate sensibilities have been offended by the mere thought of what they imagine is going on in that nasty old couples' house. Tsk.
What is the purpose of joining a church? Why even join a church and follow a pastor, if you are going to disagree with what he ministers? Why not just go to another church? It doesn't make sense. No matter what is actually going on in their home, the pastor disagrees with their decision to shack up. It's less about what's actually happening and more about how it is viewed. The Bible talks about shunning the appearance of evil. For some people they cannot handle living in the same place as their significant other. If a leader condones it, then other people may do the same thing but not have the grace to avoid sin. It's not as trivial as you are making it.
the man who booked the funeral failed to mention that he was the deceased's "husband".
thus, it was booked under false pretenses and if that baptist church is opposed to
having homosexuals they don't know go in there and have services for their "spouses"
it's within their rights not to do it. Funerals involve ceremony and rites that church wasn't
comfortable providing to a non-member who was "married" another man at time of death.
Again...I've done funerals for people I never met.
Doing a funeral does not involve stating that the deceased is a member in good standing, or that he was even a Christian, or suggesting that he was in Heaven. I'm not aware of any Biblical reason for not doing such a funeral. If a man came to me and said he wanted a funeral for his friend....I'd do the sermon and would not refer to his friend as his husband. Even though they weren't aware of the relationship, this was an opportunity to show love to the unchurched. I can't fathom why they'd turn it down.
Even if the man was open and up front about being his former gay lover....I'd still do the funeral, explaining that I could not in good conscience meniton them as married in the eulogy. I certainly would NOT stand there and rail on the guy, saying he was burning in hell....but it would be a fairly generic funeral, and I would preach the Gospel.
Pasture told mother of dead son his funeral would be blasphemous if they had it at their church because he's gay. Of course the funeral was only a day away, she found this out at the viewing.
Why would being gay matter if he is dead? Couldn't they just pray this away at the funeral??? It's not like burial is condoning his gayness. Are they forbidding him entrance to heaven with this action? I'm trying to understand how banning a gay funeral has anything to do with God not liking the act of being gay unless it's a refusal to enter the after life they believe in.
As an atheist this makes little sense seeing that murderers get funerals at churches. They just all do the prayer for forgiveness. Is not having a gay mans funeral the new objection to gay life? Or is this just a strange church request that's rare and picked up from the media?
As to why it was held at this church, apparently his family grew up in and attended that church. His partner thought this would be thoughtful for the family members since that is who would be alive to see it happen. Guess he was terribly wrong.
So, Theists, what kind of objection can you have to having a funeral for a dead gay person? Is this common with you or is this clergy man just nuts?
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio
Again...I've done funerals for people I never met.
Doing a funeral does not involve stating that the deceased is a member in good standing, or that he was even a Christian, or suggesting that he was in Heaven. I'm not aware of any Biblical reason for not doing such a funeral. If a man came to me and said he wanted a funeral for his friend....I'd do the sermon and would not refer to his friend as his husband. Even though they weren't aware of the relationship, this was an opportunity to show love to the unchurched. I can't fathom why they'd turn it down.
Even if the man was open and up front about being his former gay lover....I'd still do the funeral, explaining that I could not in good conscience meniton them as married in the eulogy. I certainly would NOT stand there and rail on the guy, saying he was burning in hell....but it would be a fairly generic funeral, and I would preach the Gospel.
I dump on Vizio a lot for his positions, but in this case, I have nothing but kudos.
It shows what one perceives to be a true christian position. It is a compassionate position, and isn't that one of the main teachings of Jesus?
I dump on Vizio a lot for his positions, but in this case, I have nothing but kudos.
It shows what one perceives to be a true christian position. It is a compassionate position, and isn't that one of the main teachings of Jesus?
So a pastor who would refuse to acknowledge that the deceased was married gets kudos from you? Interesting. I'd guess the husband of that gay man would like to be acknowledged. And have their love for each other as a couple acknowledged. And celebrated just as a straight couple would.
But then I can't imagine a member of the LGBT community going to a fundamentalist for anything religious, be it a wedding or a funeral. Especially considering that there are churches that welcome and acknowledge same sex relationships. And plenty of people who would gladly stand and say a eulogy or remember their friend. No pastor/priest needed. Especially one who would choose to ignore a vital part of someone's life: the person they'd loved, married and committed themselves to.
Last edited by DewDropInn; 08-09-2014 at 12:44 PM..
What is the purpose of joining a church? Why even join a church and follow a pastor, if you are going to disagree with what he ministers? Why not just go to another church? It doesn't make sense. No matter what is actually going on in their home, the pastor disagrees with their decision to shack up. It's less about what's actually happening and more about how it is viewed. The Bible talks about shunning the appearance of evil. For some people they cannot handle living in the same place as their significant other. If a leader condones it, then other people may do the same thing but not have the grace to avoid sin. It's not as trivial as you are making it.
Apparently, you are more concerned with the outside of the cup for the sake of appearance?
Perhaps, you should shun those wicked thoughts of people living together?
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 7,926,708 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DewDropInn
So a pastor who would refuse to acknowledge that the deceased was married gets kudos from you? Interesting. I'd guess the husband of that gay man would like to be acknowledged. And have their love for each other as a couple acknowledged. And celebrated just as a straight couple would.
You know I can't understand 99% of what Vizio puts out there on this forum.
I'm not trying to put words in his mouth, but he is showing both compassion for the deceased, and he is sticking with his beliefs. I vehemently disagree with those beliefs, but I also vehemently defend his right to have them. He is dealing with the moral dilemma of how to conduct the funeral in an appropriate manner.
Quote:
But then I can't imagine a member of the LGBT community going to a fundamentalist for anything religious, be it a wedding or a funeral. Especially considering that there are churches that welcome and acknowledge same sex relationships. And plenty of people who would gladly stand and say a eulogy or remember their friend. No pastor/priest needed. Especially one who would choose to ignore a vital part of someone's life: the person they'd loved, married and committed themselves to.
Again, I don't want to put words in Vizio's mouth, because I well may be wrong. But I can see a scenario whereby Vizio does not mention the marriage, as it is contrary to his beliefs, but that the husband delivers the eulogy.
Perhaps I'm wrong, and let's let Vizio speak for himself.
Regardless, I think he is doing the correct thing by holding the funeral service as requested.
Again...I've done funerals for people I never met.
Doing a funeral does not involve stating that the deceased is a member in good standing, or that he was even a Christian, or suggesting that he was in Heaven. I'm not aware of any Biblical reason for not doing such a funeral. If a man came to me and said he wanted a funeral for his friend....I'd do the sermon and would not refer to his friend as his husband. Even though they weren't aware of the relationship, this was an opportunity to show love to the unchurched. I can't fathom why they'd turn it down.
Even if the man was open and up front about being his former gay lover....I'd still do the funeral, explaining that I could not in good conscience meniton them as married in the eulogy. I certainly would NOT stand there and rail on the guy, saying he was burning in hell....but it would be a fairly generic funeral, and I would preach the Gospel.
Vizio, I was a bit baffled, as you were, as to why they chose not to do it. They would not have to recognize any aspect of the deceased lifestyle that was not pleasing to God, just as they would not any other person. I do not know all the details of the situation so really can form no judgement on it. I see no one on the forum has enough knowledge on it to make any type of judgement call. Even though some of them do anyway. I recall a wedding that a church changed it's mind on when they learned of the plans and clothing choices that were going to be used. They offered to allow the wedding party to conform to the church standards and they chose not to. So really it was them and not the church that made the decision.
As a pastor, I expect you would always want the opportunity to present the gospel to those in attendance. I a have seem some wonderful gospel presentations at funerals. I have it in my pre-arraignments to "unload the gospel with both barrels" at my funeral.
Vizio, I was a bit baffled, as you were, as to why they chose not to do it. They would not have to recognize any aspect of the deceased lifestyle that was not pleasing to God, just as they would not any other person. I do not know all the details of the situation so really can form no judgement on it. I see no one on the forum has enough knowledge on it to make any type of judgement call. Even though some of them do anyway. I recall a wedding that a church changed it's mind on when they learned of the plans and clothing choices that were going to be used. They offered to allow the wedding party to conform to the church standards and they chose not to. So really it was them and not the church that made the decision.
As a pastor, I expect you would always want the opportunity to present the gospel to those in attendance. I a have seem some wonderful gospel presentations at funerals. I have it in my pre-arraignments to "unload the gospel with both barrels" at my funeral.
I was baffled as well, which is why I posted this in the R&S forum. It was moved here as I didn't know another one was posted. I don't usually go into the Christianity arena.
But, this is puzzling and I'm really glad to see this doesn't extend beyond a bad judgment call from a random pasture. I didn't think that a dead man would threaten those alive. Glad to see most of you agree.
I have it in my pre-arraignments to "unload the gospel with both barrels" at my funeral.
Interesting choice of words.
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Funeral canceled??? Over being gay??? Heaven blocked!
