Many "Christians" have been deceived and are on their way to destruction (Holy Ghost, homosexuals)

[DewDropInn]

Originally Posted by john233

Romans 1:18
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. 19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. 21 For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools, 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things.

Actually... I thanked God about 20 minutes ago when it started raining.

You've no clue. My goodness...the last time I witnessed someone this wrong in his conclusions Carl Rove was finding out Romney wasn't going to be President.

[MysticPhD]

Originally Posted by MysticPhD

That is your repeated misstatement of the view of the Bible you oppose. The Bible is to be trusted . . . just NOT everything in it. Yes the Spirit of agape love is the Spirit of God and IS the absolute standard by which truth is tested. It is NOT a mere rule of thumb. Christ achieved and demonstrated PERFECT AGAPE LOVE for us all . . . even His torturers and murderers. That is WHY He is the Truth, the Life and the Way!

Originally Posted by john233

The problem is, your beliefs are not Christian, your beliefs are that of a new age gnostic.
You want God to fit in a little box where He is cute and fuzzy and you can pet Him when you are bored.
You have no doctrine other than experience. This is completely contrary to Christianity and common sense which tells us our "experience/feelings" can not be trusted for divine knowledge and insight.
And I know for a fact feelings cannot be trusted, because feelings almost always have fleshly motivations.
They are dictated by a persons worldview. You cannot change your feelings without changing your perspective/worldview.
Feelings can change, God does not change.
Just drop the whole "Christ" thing already geez, embrace your faith for what it is
Ultimately, your god ends up being yourself. As your god is based upon how you feel. Saying the name Christ does not change that. Picking out what you like from what Christ said does not change that.
I will not worship a false god named Warden or Mysticphd or even john233. Because whether you like it or not, none of us are gods.
Sure Christians can disagree on minor items that are insignificant, such as full immersion baptism vs sprinkling, speaking in tongues and things of that nature. But Christians should not divide themselves over such things.
You just throw out the whole essence of Christianity completely and call it "liberal" or "progressive" when it is in fact an altogether different thing. It is whatever you want it to be. Your only source of truth is yourself, the only one you are accountable is to yourself and your ideas on morality.

This reveals that you really do NOT believe the New Covenant that Christ instituted with His death and rebirth as Spirit. You do NOT believe that we have the Comforter (Holy Spirit) to guide us to the truth God has "written in our hearts." If you DID believe Christ and the New Covenant you would trust what is in our hearts. You retain the Old Covenant beliefs about untrustworthy hearts and anti-Christ beliefs about the nature of God born under the veil of ancient ignorance and superstition. Christ might as well not have come or even tried to reveal the TRUE NATURE of God because you completely reject it and remain stuck under the veil of ignorance over the OT.

Originally Posted by Pleroo

The problem shouldn't be about the label you put on beliefs, but on whether or not those beliefs are consistent with love and with truth.
Why is it that so many evangelical Christians, when they hear the word "love" equate it to a cute, fuzzy feeling? I don't .
I'm not going to drop the Christ and you can't make me. . Seriously, those of you who have a literal view of the bible, and even Christians on the whole, don't hold the corner market on the Christ, or on the bible either, for that matter.

Preach it, Pleroo!

Originally Posted by john233

Then what is the problem? Because this is Warden and Mystics problem with the Bible.
They say that basically the entire Bible is pure garbage, minus a few statements Jesus made. Because it portrays God as someone who is angry about all the sin, and violence, and abuse, and wickedness that goes on in the world and in our minds.
"God is so barbaric because he killed some evil people". Boo hoo lol. Give me a break, go tell a judge he is a savage barbarian for sentencing criminals
Or "God is so barbaric because he told the Israelites to sacrifice some animals" Again, grow up. How do you think we get all our meat?
You know that many times the priest would eat the meat afterwards right?
You know that people killed animals to make clothing right?
You would feel a lot differently if you grew up back then

You clearly intend to continue to misrepresent (euphemism for "lie" about) our views of the Bible! We have never said "the entire Bible is pure garbage." It CONTAINS inspirations from God but they have to be tested against the Spirit of agape love because God IS Spirit and God IS agape love! What don't you understand about that, John??? Men are terrible custodians of anything . .. let alone the Bible. Over thousands of years and myriad generations they tend to corrupt rather than perfect. The corruptions began early on after the death of Christ as we were warned about. What the majority mainstream apostate churches embrace are false Gospels as prophesied for these latter days. Your defense of them is anti-Christ . . . NOT Christian. Christ is all about agape love as His instructions to His disciples repeatedly evidence. Why does Christianity focus on a Godfather who threatens wrath and vengeance with some after death punishment? Why do they not believe in Christ's God . . . the Father who IS agape love???

1 John 3:11 (King James Version)
11For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.

Colossians 3:12-14New International Version (NIV)
12 Therefore, as God’s chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. 13 Bear with each other and forgive one another if any of you has a grievance against someone. Forgive as the Lord forgave you. 14 And over all these virtues put on love, which binds them all together in perfect unity.

Matthew 22:37-40 King James Version (KJV)
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Hebrews 10:24 (King James Version)
24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:

1 John 4:7 (King James Version)
7Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

John 17:3 (King James Version)
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

1 John 4:11-12 (King James Version)
11Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another.
12No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.

1 John 4:16-21 (King James Version)
16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.
17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.
18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.
19 We love him, because he first loved us.
20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
21And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.

John 13:34 (King James Version)
34A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

John 15:9-10 (King James Version)
9As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.
10If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

John 15:12 (King James Version)
12This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

John 15:17 (King James Version)
17These things I command you, that ye love one another.

1 John 3:23 (King James Version)
23And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

Romans 13:8-10King James Version (KJV)
8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

[Mightyqueen801]

Originally Posted by john233

None. Just don't go around with empty arguments purposely trying to draw people away from God with a pseudo-Christian gospel that is not Biblical.
Christ + Bible = Christianity.
Christ + worldly wisdom and no Bible = something other than Christianity

You can't know about Christ apart from the Bible. Feelings and opinions do not count as divine insight

Ignoring your two equations because they are presented as the only options. Kind of a lame tactic, IMO. Don't get what the point was in posting that.

Anyway, re the bolded, that's simply not true. While it's great that we have the Bible to study and learn from, you most certainly COULD know about Christ apart from the Bible, which all of the first Christians did. Then, throughout all but the most recent history, the great majority of people could not read, so they only heard scripture if it was read to them in a church setting, but they still knew Christ.

If you found yourself on a desert island with your wife and no bible and subsequently had a child, how would that child know about Christ with no bible available? If someone goes to a people who have no written language and tells them about Christ, they are learning about Christ without the bible.

We who can read and have the printing press (or the Internet) are fortunate to have the Bible, but Christianity is not about what's in a book.

[Wardendresden]

Originally Posted by john233

None. Just don't go around with empty arguments purposely trying to draw people away from God with a pseudo-Christian gospel that is not Biblical.
Christ + Bible = Christianity.
Christ + worldly wisdom and no Bible = something other than Christianity

You can't know about Christ apart from the Bible. Feelings and opinions do not count as divine insight

You can know about Christ if He is indwelt in your heart. You cannot if you leave Him stuck between the covers of your book.

[Mightyqueen801]

Originally Posted by Wardendresden

You can know about Christ if He is indwelt in your heart. You cannot if you leave Him stuck between the covers of your book.

Well stated.

[john233]

Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801

Ignoring your two equations because they are presented as the only options. Kind of a lame tactic, IMO. Don't get what the point was in posting that.

Anyway, re the bolded, that's simply not true. While it's great that we have the Bible to study and learn from, you most certainly COULD know about Christ apart from the Bible, which all of the first Christians did. Then, throughout all but the most recent history, the great majority of people could not read, so they only heard scripture if it was read to them in a church setting, but they still knew Christ.

If you found yourself on a desert island with your wife and no bible and subsequently had a child, how would that child know about Christ with no bible available? If someone goes to a people who have no written language and tells them about Christ, they are learning about Christ without the bible.

We who can read and have the printing press (or the Internet) are fortunate to have the Bible, but Christianity is not about what's in a book.

The early Christians did have a Bible. It is called the Old Testament and it tells you everything you need to know. God's plan for man, creation, the Gospel, it prophesies the coming of Christ hundreds of times, you can read and understand Christ through His actions in the Old Testament and everything else. The Old Testament, viewed in hindsight coupled with the first hand accounts and teachings of Christ was all they needed to know.

[TroutDude]

Originally Posted by john233

The early Christians did have a Bible. It is called the Old Testament and it tells you everything you need to know. God's plan for man, creation, the Gospel, it prophesies the coming of Christ hundreds of times, you can read and understand Christ through His actions in the Old Testament and everything else. The Old Testament, viewed in hindsight coupled with the first hand accounts and teachings of Christ was all they needed to know.

...sigh....

[john233]

Originally Posted by TroutDude

...sigh....

Not one of them thought it was superstitious. It was their identity, their history.
What part of the Old Testament is fiction?

The temple of Solomon existed. Christ established the Priesthood and sacrificial system
He gave them the 10 commandments in stone at My Sinai
Christ punished Israel for their disbelief and turning from God by having them be captured and enslaved by Egypt and Babylon.
He had them lose their homeland to Rome and foretold when the nation of Israel would be reestablished exactly in 1948

Christ acted on behalf of the Father. Christ is the Word of God.

[TroutDude]

Originally Posted by john233

...snip....

What part of the Old Testament is fiction?

...snip...

You asked and I answered this one earlier: Genesis - for starters.

All of it.

[john233]

Originally Posted by TroutDude

You asked and I answered this one earlier: Genesis - for starters.

All of it.

I'd ask you to prove that but you cannot