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1) and as usual taking text out of context and not looking at the qualifier ... it's not judging per say but judging a wrongful actions while "do(ing) the same thing" .. for example to condemn not returning books to the library and yet you don't return books and have past due fines.
... whew, now you need-int use that sound bit anymore where I'm concerned when I repeat what God condemns concerning this topic.
2) Jesus makes very plain the necessity to judge others in Matthew 7:6, and assures in Matthew 7:16 -20 "judging" is the only way possible to recognize "that by their fruit (lifestyle including teaching) we will recognize false prophets"
John 8:15 "You judge according to the flesh; I am not judging anyone."
Was Jesus contradictory?
Matt 7:6 says "Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces."
I fail to see that as judgmental. It may indicate what not to do, but nothing about judging.
Matt 7:16-20 says "By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them."
Knowing someone by their fruit is NOT judging them.
You definitely need to work on scriptural comprehension because going from those verses to "you must judge them" is a leap across the Grand Canyon.
If they are not "good fruit" it isn't for you to judge them, it's for you to win them over by the Spirit of Christ. Judging never does that. Only love does.
Absolutely correct, twin, but you miss an important element: love is the basis for all of that action, You work not from a set of rules, but from a concern for the well-being of everyone in any action under consideration. "The letter kills, but the spirit gives life." That and many other references should give you a strong idea that just quoting or using your understanding of the words without that concern is going to lead you wrong. When you have that concern, you find out, using any tool required what really IS the best for everyone in the situation at hand. Whose benefit are you concerned with, twin, and how does that work?
1) and as usual taking text out of context and not looking at the qualifier ... it's not judging per say but judging a wrongful actions while "do(ing) the same thing" .. for example to condemn not returning books to the library and yet you don't return books and have past due fines.
... whew, now you need-int use that sound bit anymore where I'm concerned when I repeat what God condemns concerning this topic.
2) Jesus makes very plain the necessity to judge others in Matthew 7:6, and assures in Matthew 7:16 -20 "judging" is the only way possible to recognize "that by their fruit (lifestyle including teaching) we will recognize false prophets"
That is sensible, but the evangelical fundies go even further and say that if your books are late, you no longer get to check out more books or even use the library anymore--but life goes on the the evangelical-fundie because they continue to checkout books and have FULL ACCESS to the library.
1) and as usual taking text out of context and not looking at the qualifier ... it's not judging per say but judging a wrongful actions while "do(ing) the same thing" .. for example to condemn not returning books to the library and yet you don't return books and have past due fines.
... whew, now you need-int use that sound bit anymore where I'm concerned when I repeat what God condemns concerning this topic.
2) Jesus makes very plain the necessity to judge others in Matthew 7:6, and assures in Matthew 7:16 -20 "judging" is the only way possible to recognize "that by their fruit (lifestyle including teaching) we will recognize false prophets"
The judgment Jesus was referring to was righteous judgment not one of condemnation or fault finding which both are unrighteous judgments.
As we pick and roll and put a move on christianity many will do things exposing their lukewarm selves often
leaning to the far left because they THINK gays are nice they are drawn to the Marxist idiology of political correctness , the even nicer warm and fuzzy support of co-exist as if it offers a vail of protection from external
enities monitoring their naive effort to the theme of can we just get along ? So many wows one begins to won-
where these disconnects will land some day . Christians that support gay life are still christian theoretically if
they believe ,but are just divorced from scripture , are not mentored nor have any clue of God covenants and
simply do a selfie of a religious person in la la land. Its disturbing as they will not have what it will take to survive
when hell empties its demonic spirits that will soon render earth a hell hole . Their lack of knowledge will confuse
their faith, resolve and they will jump in the box all provided by FEMA (two per box).
As we pick and roll and put a move on christianity many will do things exposing their lukewarm selves often
leaning to the far left because they THINK gays are nice they are drawn to the Marxist idiology of political correctness , the even nicer warm and fuzzy support of co-exist as if it offers a vail of protection from external
enities monitoring their naive effort to the theme of can we just get along ? So many wows one begins to won-
where these disconnects will land some day . Christians that support gay life are still christian theoretically if
they believe ,but are just divorced from scripture , are not mentored nor have any clue of God covenants and
simply do a selfie of a religious person in la la land. Its disturbing as they will not have what it will take to survive
when hell empties its demonic spirits that will soon render earth a hell hole . Their lack of knowledge will confuse
their faith, resolve and they will jump in the box all provided by FEMA (two per box).
I need another emoticon for this post..
JESUS WAS AND IS A SOCIALIST---
SELL WHAT YOU OWN AND GIVE IT TO THE POOR
All the believers were together and had everything in common.
They sold property and possessions to give to anyone who had need.
Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts, praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people. And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved.
About as socialist as one can get without wearing it in your forehead..
PLEASE, PLEASE will the evangelical fundies just STOP JUDGING and deciding who is or who is not on the right side of God's LOVE...This is as close as one can get to BLASPHEMING THE HOLY SPIRIT as possible without wearing an inverted cross on their forehead..
Pretty good article to read for Christians backing gay marriage and changing their profile pics on social media with a rainbow filter. I included the questions as well.
1. How long have you believed that gay marriage is something to be celebrated?
2. What Bible verses led you to change your mind?
3. How would you make a positive case from Scripture that sexual activity between two persons of the same sex is a blessing to be celebrated?
4. What verses would you use to show that a marriage between two persons of the same sex can adequately depict Christ and the church?
5. Do you think Jesus would have been okay with homosexual behavior between consenting adults in a committed relationship?
6. If so, why did he reassert the Genesis definition of marriage as being one man and one woman?
7. When Jesus spoke against porneia what sins do you think he was forbidding?
8. If some homosexual behavior is acceptable, how do you understand the sinful “exchange†Paul highlights in Romans 1?
9. Do you believe that passages like 1 Corinthians 6:9 and Revelation 21:8 teach that sexual immorality can keep you out of heaven?
10. What sexual sins do you think they were referring to?
11. As you think about the long history of the church and the near universal disapproval of same-sex sexual activity, what do you think you understand about the Bible that Augustine, Aquinas, Calvin, and Luther failed to grasp?
12. What arguments would you use to explain to Christians in Africa, Asia, and South America that their understanding of homosexuality is biblically incorrect and your new understanding of homosexuality is not culturally conditioned?
13. Do you think Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama were motivated by personal animus and bigotry when they, for almost all of their lives, defined marriage as a covenant relationship between one man and one woman?
14. Do you think children do best with a mother and a father?
15. If not, what research would you point to in support of that conclusion?
16. If yes, does the church or the state have any role to play in promoting or privileging the arrangement that puts children with a mom and a dad?
17. Does the end and purpose of marriage point to something more than an adult’s emotional and sexual fulfillment?
18. How would you define marriage?
19. Do you think close family members should be allowed to get married?
20. Should marriage be limited to only two people?
21. On what basis, if any, would you prevent consenting adults of any relation and of any number from getting married?
22. Should there be an age requirement in this country for obtaining a marriage license?
23. Does equality entail that anyone wanting to be married should be able to have any meaningful relationship defined as marriage?
24. If not, why not?
25. Should your brothers and sisters in Christ who disagree with homosexual practice be allowed to exercise their religious beliefs without fear of punishment, retribution, or coercion?
26. Will you speak up for your fellow Christians when their jobs, their accreditation, their reputation, and their freedoms are threatened because of this issue?
27. Will you speak out against shaming and bullying of all kinds, whether against gays and lesbians or against Evangelicals and Catholics?
28. Since the evangelical church has often failed to take unbiblical divorces and other sexual sins seriously, what steps will you take to ensure that gay marriages are healthy and accord with Scriptural principles?
29. Should gay couples in open relationships be subject to church discipline?
30. Is it a sin for LGBT persons to engage in sexual activity outside of marriage?
31. What will open and affirming churches do to speak prophetically against divorce, fornication, pornography, and adultery wherever they are found?
32. If “love wins,†how would you define love?
33. What verses would you use to establish that definition?
34. How should obedience to God’s commands shape our understanding of love?
35. Do you believe it is possible to love someone and disagree with important decisions they make?
36. If supporting gay marriage is a change for you, has anything else changed in your understanding of faith?
37. As an evangelical, how has your support for gay marriage helped you become more passionate about traditional evangelical distinctives like a focus on being born again, the substitutionary sacrifice of Christ on the cross, the total trustworthiness of the Bible, and the urgent need to evangelize the lost?
38. What open and affirming churches would you point to where people are being converted to orthodox Christianity, sinners are being warned of judgment and called to repentance, and missionaries are being sent out to plant churches among unreached peoples?
39. Do you hope to be more committed to the church, more committed to Christ, and more committed to the Scriptures in the years ahead?
40. When Paul at the end of Romans 1 rebukes “those who practice such things†and those who “give approval to those who practice them,†what sins do you think he has in mind?
I will answer question two. Since Jesus was silent on the subject, and he is the only person in the bible who's words are absolute - (because He is part of the God Head) I see nothing that tells me that being Gay is wrong.
Marriage is determined by law of the land (which as we all know, was just changed) and by specific religions and denominations. Separation of church and state permits people to do as they see fit without the sanction of any religion. It also permits specific religions the freedom to not accept homosexuality as normal and to not marry gay people.
Why do I think that gayness was discussed in the Hebrew scripture? Ancient ignorance.Is one reason. In Leviticus we are also instructed not to eat fish without scales, eat pork, or fabrics that are blended together.
As far as what Paul said 1. I am not a "Pauline" I am a "Christian". 2. Paul was a man. A very opinionated one, at that. 3.I also think that it referenced a specific cultural practice of the day.
I am not Gay. I have known it since I was a little girl. My Gay friends have known the same thing with the same degree of certainty. I know many gays who are Christians.
PS - I never "changed my mind" on this issue. I did not grow up in a church that fixated on hell fire and damnation. We talked more about what TO DO to be better Christians, than what NOT TO DO.
I never focused or thought much (judged) Gay people - because I was never taught to hate them. I think Jesus would like that.
At what point did you start to believe god-n-the-tiny-box was OPPRESSIVE, HATEFUL, VENGEFUL, JEALOUS, and other wise BIGOTED??
i love the rainbow flag, but the world my God created did not come consequence free
if i cross the light on the red did god strike me down???
god gets blamed for a lot of stuff.
Pretty good article to read for Christians backing gay marriage and changing their profile pics on social media with a rainbow filter. I included the questions as well.
1. How long have you believed that gay marriage is something to be celebrated?
2. What Bible verses led you to change your mind?
What makes you assume Christians didn't always support gay marriage in the first place? Many did, and do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAAN
3. How would you make a positive case from Scripture that sexual activity between two persons of the same sex is a blessing to be celebrated?
That isn't necessary even among conservative Christians. After all, there isn't a positive Scriptural reference to interracial sex, or a case made for assisted suicide, or any of the thousands of moral dillemmas Stone Age people didn't have to deal with millenia ago. Next.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAAN
4. What verses would you use to show that a marriage between two persons of the same sex can adequately depict Christ and the church?
This question is even more laughable, considering Jesus was in his 30s at the time of his death, still a single guy, and hung around with 12 other guys all the time
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAAN
5. Do you think Jesus would have been okay with homosexual behavior between consenting adults in a committed relationship?
6. If so, why did he reassert the Genesis definition of marriage as being one man and one woman?
Show me where he reasserted this because I haven't heard or read of Jesus mentioning anything RE: homosexuality, which is the main reason bigoted Christians couldn't argue that discrimination against gays is OK because of biblical principles.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAAN
7. When Jesus spoke against porneia what sins do you think he was forbidding?
Speak out against what?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAAN
9. Do you believe that passages like 1 Corinthians 6:9 and Revelation 21:8 teach that sexual immorality can keep you out of heaven?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAAN
10. What sexual sins do you think they were referring to?
Who, Paul? Because he was the guy who wrote 1 Corinthians. As for what sexual sins he was referring to, I have no idea, nor does anyone else, so I suggest you ask him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAAN
14. Do you think children do best with a mother and a father?
No. My mom had a girlfriend, and she was a better parent to me than my supposed father ever was. He was an on again, off again dad, and she was a loving, consistent presence in our lives. Children do best with people in their lives who love them and care for them, biologically related or not. Additionally, my sister was adopted as an adult by a non related couple she met through her job, and they have been a huge source of support for her.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAAN
15. If not, what research would you point to in support of that conclusion?
My sister's and my personal experience.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAAN
17. Does the end and purpose of marriage point to something more than an adult’s emotional and sexual fulfillment?
Yes. There are many legal, social, and financial benefits to marriage as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAAN
20. Should marriage be limited to only two people?
I don't think so. Polygamy is a successful form of marriage in other countries, and as long as all parties consent, I think it should be allowed here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAAN
22. Should there be an age requirement in this country for obtaining a marriage license?
Of course. I don't know what that age should be, though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAAN
23. Does equality entail that anyone wanting to be married should be able to have any meaningful relationship defined as marriage?
24. If not, why not?
Of course not. Age, blood relation, and inability to consent to the relationship would be disqualifiers, IMO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAAN
25. Should your brothers and sisters in Christ who disagree with homosexual practice be allowed to exercise their religious beliefs without fear of punishment, retribution, or coercion?
No. They are free to disagree all they want, but they are not allowed to openly discriminate. Jesus isn't around to back up what they say he and God disapprove of. Thus, they will be punished if they discriminate against gays, just as they will be punished if they discriminate against blacks, Native Americans, women, men or handicapped people. It's quite simple.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAAN
26. Will you speak up for your fellow Christians when their jobs, their accreditation, their reputation, and their freedoms are threatened because of this issue?
No. See #25.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAAN
28. Since the evangelical church has often failed to take unbiblical divorces and other sexual sins seriously, what steps will you take to ensure that gay marriages are healthy and accord with Scriptural principles?
None. Other people's marriages are none of my business.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAAN
29. Should gay couples in open relationships be subject to church discipline?
No. Their relationships are not the church's business.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAAN
30. Is it a sin for LGBT persons to engage in sexual activity outside of marriage?
A married gay person has just as much responsibility to be faithful to his/her spouse as a married straight person, regardless of whether sin is involved. I take my marriage vows to my wife very seriously and wouldn't think of cheating on my wife.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAAN
32. If “love wins,” how would you define love?
What do you mean, "If?"
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAAN
34. How should obedience to God’s commands shape our understanding of love?
They shouldn't. Even very religious people should have love in their heart regardless of God's commands.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAAN
35. Do you believe it is possible to love someone and disagree with important decisions they make?
It happens every day.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAAN
37. As an evangelical, how has your support for gay marriage helped you become more passionate about traditional evangelical distinctives like a focus on being born again, the substitutionary sacrifice of Christ on the cross, the total trustworthiness of the Bible, and the urgent need to evangelize the lost?
This thread is about the attitudes of evangelicals? I thought it was about Christians in general.
Last edited by Scooby Snacks; 07-05-2015 at 02:52 PM..
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