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The Israelite teachers were teaching Jesus received his power from satan, they turned their hearts to hatred to him and lied and said he was making himself equal with God and sent him to his death. Such a hatred that they even broke the law and tried him the first night he was arrested, a man had 7 days to build a defense under jewish law back then, they were sticklers for the law, but their hatred for Jesus was greater.
They as well lacked love--they looked down on the flock calling them Amharets--( means giving table scraps to the dogs( these were spiritual table scraps though)
When did Israel reject Jesus?...And send him to his death?...
I'm not making that claim, I am relating what the fundamentalist Christian theology I grew up in teaches.
It goes something like this: Jesus wept over Jerusalem and said, "Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those I send to you ... how often I would have gathered you to myself, as a hen gathers her chicks, but you would not ... behold, your place is left unto you desolate". I'm going by memory, but I think it's pretty close.
From the Christian viewpoint, the religious authorities of the day, representing Judaism, conspired to crucify Christ, therefore, god offered his grace to the Gentiles, for the present age.
Again ... not my thinking, I'm just the messenger here.
I'm not making that claim, I am relating what the fundamentalist Christian theology I grew up in teaches.
It goes something like this: Jesus wept over Jerusalem and said, "Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those I send to you ... how often I would have gathered you to myself, as a hen gathers her chicks, but you would not ... behold, your place is left unto you desolate". I'm going by memory, but I think it's pretty close.
From the Christian viewpoint, the religious authorities of the day, representing Judaism, conspired to crucify Christ, therefore, god offered his grace to the Gentiles, for the present age.
Again ... not my thinking, I'm just the messenger here.
The ruling class weren't Jews...And that is talking about Jerusalem not Israel...
By the known characteristics of the Spirit. Murder is not consistent with that.
Isn't it? The Holy Spirit is god. God has murdered people throughout history, according to the Bible. Of course God was exercising his prerogative to act as judge, jury, and executioner ... and maybe that's not a privilege his followers should take upon themselves ... but they've been known to do it, in the name of god.
Even when I was a believer, I was cautioned repeatedly to stick to the Bible and avoid personal experience as any sort of guide, as it can be deceptive.
I have known very judgmental, controlling people who claim to be filled with the spirit of god, and sweet, loving people. I think it's a highly questionable claim, because even the judgmental, unkind types see themselves as sweet and loving. And ironically the sweet loving people often doubt their own goodness.
Isn't it? The Holy Spirit is god. God has murdered people throughout history, according to the Bible. Of course God was exercising his prerogative to act as judge, jury, and executioner ... and maybe that's not a privilege his followers should take upon themselves ... but they've been known to do it, in the name of god.
Even when I was a believer, I was cautioned repeatedly to stick to the Bible and avoid personal experience as any sort of guide, as it can be deceptive.
I have known very judgmental, controlling people who claim to be filled with the spirit of god, and sweet, loving people. I think it's a highly questionable claim, because even the judgmental, unkind types see themselves as sweet and loving. And ironically the sweet loving people often doubt their own goodness.
And we have mentioned in passing that "God is love" was revealed by Jesus after the history of the development of the concepts of God recorded in the Old Testament reached that point. Prior perceptions about the nature of God are not under consideration in Christ.
as usual, I stand by everything I said in my post in this thread,
and I'm just plain tired of the repetition involved in having to constantly
type out and "disprove" against those who counterdict what I say.
We're talking about some very basic Christian truths that are not
up for argument. I've just had it "up to here" with this place.
If you don't want people to "counterdict" (or even contradict) what you say, then you should not enter into discussions with them. Because anytime you discuss something ... horrors! ... the other person might not agree with you.
I know it's annoying for you to have to substantiate claims you make, or rationally justify your position, or to acknowledge that people of good conscience disagree with your interpretation of scripture or dogma, or maybe don't even share your beliefs ... and might have the temerity to discuss those differing interpretations or beliefs.
It would be ever so much simpler if such people would all disappear and you could enjoy an echo chamber of your own ideas. Alas and alack ... the world is a much bigger place than the space in between your ears.
If you don't want people to "counterdict" (or even contradict) what you say, then you should not enter into discussions with them. Because anytime you discuss something ... horrors! ... the other person might not agree with you.
I know it's annoying for you to have to substantiate claims you make, or rationally justify your position, or to acknowledge that people of good conscience disagree with your interpretation of scripture or dogma, or maybe don't even share your beliefs ... and might have the temerity to discuss those differing interpretations or beliefs.
It would be ever so much simpler if such people would all disappear and you could enjoy an echo chamber of your own ideas. Alas and alack ... the world is a much bigger place than the space in between your ears.
Don't sweat it, Mordant, it's just another fundamentalist mind set that cann't demonstrate the validity of the doctrines held so dear and so they blame everyone else instead of their doctrines, shout "true doctrine has left the building" and run away.
By me, the door should not hit them....
The fundamentalist mindset will be with us always, if not one, a new one.
If you say so. I have no skin in this game, so argue it with a fundamentalist Christian.
Herod wasn't a Jew...
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