Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Had extreemly little to do with homosexuality, if there was no homosexual in sodom or Gamorroa, God would have destroyed them. It was their isolationist mentality," The Sodom Mentality."
Chabad
"Once they had found out that Plitith, Lot’s daughter, had secretly given food to a stranger who was near starvation, and they burned her in public. Another time, when they discovered that a young girl had fed a starving beggar, they smeared honey all over her and placed her upon the city wall, so that she died from the stings of the bees attracted by the honey.
These and many other similar hideous acts of cruelty by the Sodomites and their neighbors of Gomorrah, had aroused G‑d’s anger, and He decided to destroy them completely." ------
They were cruel people that believed in isolation against all other people to where they treated strangers and the needy so bad because of greed.
They didnt want anyoneto help the needy because they did not want the needy. You go into a small city.and.somebody puts up a mission and all the people around that mission will complain about having homeless needy and desperate people around.
The Torah is the complete opposite way of life, you bring up all your tithes in food to the temple for the needy. You are instructed to not harvest all your food out of the field that the needy may come and get, and the whole law is set this way.
Sodomites did not want people on.their land, certainly not taking their harvest, and they not only wouldn't care for the stranger, the needy and traveler, they were so against helping others that they killed people who did help others, they were completely cruel greedy people.that put up tolls, even building bridges with tolls to cross a river, and if you were caught swimming across without using their bridge, you dead.
Homosexuality wasnt even a consideration, it was their uncaring cruelty against anyone who was not them.
You arrive in Jerusalem traveling through, and you stand in the courtyard and somebody had better come along to take you into their house or God is gonna be livid.
A Jew catches the needy camping on their land eating his harvest, he better bot even open his mouth to them unless to bless them.
The law of the Lord all comes down to mercy and helping the stranger, the travel, the widow, orphans and needy so you will be blessed in pleasing God
The Sodom law says," I dont want anything from you, and I dont want to give you anything."
When Lot took in those strangers, he was seriously risking his life for helping the stranger, it simply was.not done, and pure greed ruled the city, and if anyone didnt adhere to the rules, you just might get killed because if you freely help somebody giving them something free, the people of Sodom would feel that you stole money from them, or that you helped a person not to become a servant.
Why pick on Christianity? Why not start with the people who wrote the Old Testament? Or their cousins whose prophet claimed the Bible is inspired literature too (just corrupted a little by the Jews and Christians). They all have the same opinion, coincidentally enough.
A person can be 'inspired' to write a classic piece of literature and receive a literary award for their effort, or be 'inspired' to convincingly act out a part in a movie for which they receive an Oscar, or they may be 'inspired' to write a superb song that earns them a Grammy Award, etc. etc.
Where DOES 'inspiration' come from? From a divine being? Maybe. So, are these authors, actors and musicians therefore accorded the status of a divine being as are the Bible luminaries? Well, it could be argued that society DOES tend to exalt and worship their idols in areas of entertainment, sport, etc. Some of these artists are even referred to as 'gods' and therefore receive appropriate adulation from their fanatics. In the minds of many, Elvis Presley was beyond human and therefore could not die. And just as the women wept for Tammuz in Ezekiel 8, thousands of women throughout the world did similarly when Elvis (appeared to have) died. Some things never change.
So, maybe the authors of the Bible were inspired by a divine being who we have been taught to believe is inerrant and infallible. However, does this automatically make the 66 human authors who wrote the Bible and those who compiled the canons of the Old and the New Testaments inerrant and infallible? Yes? No? Maybe? Who knows? Sometimes we just need to use our brains to give us the answer to this question as well as others.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Led Zeppelin
Reason? Or REASONS plural? I suppose it's about how you want to pick and choose. Of course, I notice you didn't mention Genesis at all. I know you like picking and choosing, so there's no mystery with that one.
Who are you, LZ? Are your comprehension skills intact? This thread IS about Genesis!
And, regarding my picking and choosing ...where have I done this? 'One liners' don't do it for me so your words are utterly meaningless to me unless you have the ability to elaborate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Led Zeppelin
Okay. Let's read the passage from Ezekiel.... 49 “‘Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. 50 They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen.
Verse 50 is still there. Even though you probably threw it out. Nothing about hospitality there either.
Who the heck do you think you're talking to?? It's a long thread but I can ASSURE you that I have attempted to cover all bases re the topic under discussion in my contributions to this thread. I even went the extra mile and gave Ezekiel's account pertaining to what HE terms 'abominations' in Ezekiel 8. And, NONE of them have anything to do with homosexuality! Moreover, should you engage any comprehension skills that you might possess you WILL see in my initial post where I CERTAINLY mention where Jesus makes reference to the 'inhospitality' of S&G in Mathew 10:14-15!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Led Zeppelin
Why not just throw out the whole Bible? You might as well. It's what you want to do anyway.
Just a suggestion ...why not do some serious study on the subject matter and then get back to me?
The same God who destroyed a country for homosexual acts, has nothing to say about a man who impregnates his daughters? I don't know a lot about male physiology, but I can bet that a man knows when he's having sex no matter how much he's had to drink. God also has nothing to say about a man who offers his daughters up to be gang raped? That is some kind of messed up.
Moreover, in a drunken state this man impregnated both of the daughters without, um, being aware that he'd done so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie
1. Nowhere in the Bible does it suggest that Lot was good, moral, or just in doing that. Or that his daughters were good, moral, or just.
That it was 'they' who were saved while everyone else were destroyed would of course suggest that they were good, moral and just. However, it was 'they' who were necessary to be spared in order to arrive at the point to this strange form of story-telling.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie
2. God clearly blesses Lot not because of what he's done, but because of the faith he had in God. That's consistent with the message of the Bible. It's not about what we do, but our faith. If God had found faithful men and women in Sodom or Gomorrah, he'd have saved them.
'Reason' really does need to be suspended in order to actually believe this strange story. The mere suggestion by these 'faithful' Christians that EVERYONE in these cities - and this includes babies and children - were wicked is, well, words fail me. Moreover, to so casually tell this story from pulpit to congregation that a deity who the preacher and congregation claim to adore would zap a city with fire and brimstone and destroy all but Lot and his bimbo daughters - and this includes all those wicked gay children, babies and animals - should make us all roll our eyes. **
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie
The fact is, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and all the rest of their descendants that were blessed by God were often downright bad men and women. They routinely did bad things. But God blessed them because he promised Abraham he would, and they trusted in him to do that.
So, God played favorites? He saved the bad people He favored and destroyed those who He didn't? What kind of message does this send about God?
** Yes, I realize that Jesus referred to Sodom and Gomorrah as though their destruction by God actually occurred but it's more than probable that He expounded on the story known to His disciple simply to make a point ...just as He did regarding parables He told. Jesus' point? "Those who don't receive you warmly and are hospitable toward you, even though you are a stranger, are on an equal par with the inhabitants of the story of S&G who were also inhospitable toward strangers."
Whenever the story of the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah and the other cities of the plain is told no one ever seems to consider that: 1. innocent children and babies and animals were also destroyed. 2. these alleged 'homosexual men' had apparently been heterosexual for long enough to have sired the children and the young men who came with them to 'party with the angels'. 3. The women who married the men and gave birth to their children were also destroyed by the same fire and brimstone that rained down on the cities. And yet, we're told in this weird story that God decided that these cities must be destroyed because even ten righteous babies could not be found! But, by golly, this event really did occur because it sez so in the Bible!
Shouldn't this thread be combined with the other thread on homosexuality?
It seems to me like there are two different conversations going on pertaining to the same subject.
It's only because of mainstream Christianity's teaching that Sodom was destroyed because of rampant homosexuality that it's taken on similarities to the other thread. I do believe that both topics are independent of one another.
A number of years ago when I regularly attended church, a dozen or so of us took part in a Bible study of Sodom and Gomorrah. We were surprised to find - after all of the traditional hype about WHY they were destroyed - that nowhere is homosexuality referred to. Intended homosexual rape meant to intimidate by heterosexual men, perhaps, but not 'homosexuality' per se. Nowhere! And, even then, it seems that God had laid plans to destroy the cities before the 'men and angels' incident. So, that alleged event had nothing to do with the destruction process. However, the ONLY focus by Christians on the destruction of S&G (and this alleged incident only occurred in Sodom and not in Gomorrah or the other cities of the plain) is from the 'homosexual' angle. Hence this thread.
Shouldn't this thread be combined with the other thread on homosexuality?
It seems to me like there are two different conversations going on pertaining to the same subject.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RomulusXXV
It's only because of mainstream Christianity's teaching that Sodom was destroyed because of rampant homosexuality that it's taken on similarities to the other thread. I do believe that both topics are independent of one another.
A number of years ago when I regularly attended church, a dozen or so of us took part in a Bible study of Sodom and Gomorrah. We were surprised to find - after all of the traditional hype about WHY they were destroyed - that nowhere is homosexuality referred to. Intended homosexual rape meant to intimidate by heterosexual men, perhaps, but not 'homosexuality' per se. Nowhere! And, even then, it seems that God had laid plans to destroy the cities before the 'men and angels' incident. So, that alleged event had nothing to do with the destruction process. However, the ONLY focus by Christians on the destruction of S&G (and this alleged incident only occurred in Sodom and not in Gomorrah or the other cities of the plain) is from the 'homosexual' angle. Hence this thread.
Some people have tunnel vision.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Some people have tunnel vision.
