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You asked, I told you the honest truth. If it doesn't measure up to what you want to hear, I can't help that. Peace
I don't need your help. Thanks.
My gift of discernment gives me the knowledge to know who is a self-congratulatory lecturer who thinks everyone else just doesn't get it and who is someone I should actually listen to.
Last edited by DewDropInn; 03-29-2016 at 05:07 PM..
But the Bible is the absolute truth ... thus in reality it is you who that is checking your interpretations against your interpretations.
No, Finn, I check my interpretations against the kind of love Jesus taught and which Paul described pretty well in 1 Cor 13 and Galations 5. It is an absolute standard that is confirmed by that Spirit of Truth that was promised to us and described to us by Jesus: the one I cn't understand people NOT trusting unless they have NEVER encountered that Spirit.
As I said, even if the Bible IS "absolute truth," thw Christian world is profoundly divided on what it means and therefore you are only testing your own interpretations against themselves, not a reliable truth check.
Why is it that you don't trust the Spirit promised, Finn?
@ WardenDresden......And I am sorry you can't grasp spiritual principles AT ALL, which, during the explaining of which, I made it VERY PLAIN, apply to ALL HUMANITY, and instead chose to revert to the usual tactics of name-calling and distortion of what was said by the poster, with the intent to imply a specific singling out of individuals has occurred, rather than a singling out of PRINCIPLES WHICH APPLY TO ALL HUMANITY.
And I said, LESSER, because anything done in the flesh is a lesser grievance to Him than the HEART sin, which is what He called the Pharisees on the carpet about (inside of the cup), because the head is always judged more severely than the body, due to more knowledge and therefore greater accountability. And so as I stated, ignoring the SPIRITUAL principle that underlies the outer grievance you CAN SEE, is of far greater consequence for the individual. And the kicker is (that I didn't point out), is that you don't have to give life to what is in your heart by participation in the flesh, to have that same thing in your heart. Which is why none can judge without being judged BY THE SAME MEASURE.
And you clearly didn't use the right resource for looking up the word in Hebrew for Sodom, which is BURNING, coming from an unused root word meaning, TO TORCH. If you like, I'll spell it for you in Hebrew letter by Hebrew letter, complete with an accompanying meaning of each of the letters.
Also, Gomorrah comes from a word meaning, a ruin, and from a root word that means to pile up or chastise (like piling up blows), and to count grain (SEEDS), to make merchandise of.
Which is exactly what the carnal mind does: it strikes blows to His image (the image that can only be seen via His Spirit and thereby conform the beholder into that same image) to make it unrecognizable so that none should desire it, sells Him out just as Ismael did to hang onto some flesh, and takes on as many unrighteous thoughts (seeds) as it possibly can in preparation for the HARVEST.
I rejected what He told me to reject, which is the G-d-less carnally minded interpretations of His Word that have no LIFE in them, in whoever or wherever they might be found. As for looking inwards, true knowledge comes through His Spirit and comes with a PRICE, which anyone that has paid it, would know.
As for hospitality to my gay brothers and sisters, I am offering them the same covering He offers all mankind, which is what we are accountable for. Peace
They can't find a "root" word for Sodom. There is speculation about its meaning. But most sources use FLAMING:
Quote:
Most sources refer to an unused verb shadam meaning to burn. The city's name is rendered by Jones' Dictionary of Old Testament Proper Names as Flaming,
We start our linguistic analysis of “Sodom” by noting that, although “Sodom” itself is spelled with a samekh, there is no root or derivative of “Sodom” spelled with a samekh. That’s a key clue to what is actually going on here. “ Sodom”, spelled with a samekh, reflects a series of puns on words that begin with a sin, rather than a samekh. A sin and a samekh have similar sounds.
The whole point of the writer literally picking the name was to point out their idolatry. They worshiped Molech, the fire god, and sacrificed children to it. They also practiced Temple prostitution. And Sodom and Gomorrah weren't the only cities destroyed--all the plains cities met destruction. Admah and Zeboiim met the same fate as Sodom and Gomorrah. (Deut 29:23)
The only special meaning in those cities were that they were:
1) Pagan worshipers
2) Inhospitable to sojourners
When I see a Pharisee, I salute his hard headedness, and inability to see the simplicity of Jesus' message--Love God with all your strength, and mind, and soul, and Love your neighbor as yourself. That is the SUM of the LAW, and the only thing real followers of Christ are interested in doing.
The whole point of the writer literally picking the name was to point out their idolatry. They worshiped Molech, the fire god, and sacrificed children to it. They also practiced Temple prostitution. And Sodom and Gomorrah weren't the only cities destroyed--all the plains cities met destruction. Admah and Zeboiim met the same fate as Sodom and Gomorrah. (Deut 29:23)
The only special meaning in those cities were that they were:
1) Pagan worshipers
2) Inhospitable to sojourners
When I see a Pharisee, I salute his hard headedness, and inability to see the simplicity of Jesus' message--Love God with all your strength, and mind, and soul, and Love your neighbor as yourself. That is the SUM of the LAW, and the only thing real followers of Christ are interested in doing.
And again, Jews don't have a problem with knowing the root words for them, so you need to change your sources. I haven't had time to go into all the rest of it, yet, give me a little more time, I'm not done on touching on all of it.
Your definition of love includes keeping people in ignorance and bondage, and disobedience to the core principles contained in His law which is the framework for the Spirit to clothe, just as the flesh covers the bones. Neither the Spirit nor Yeshua are guilty of this.
And not all the Pharisees were evil, they were in fact the ruling class of the temple service, the strictest followers of the understanding that had been given them in their time, zealous for the things of G-d. The motive of the heart is what separated them, as G-d's selection of Saul, a Pharisee of Pharisees, proved. So insult away, it's not an insult to everyone. Peace
The whole point of the writer literally picking the name was to point out their idolatry. They worshiped Molech, the fire god, and sacrificed children to it. They also practiced Temple prostitution. And Sodom and Gomorrah weren't the only cities destroyed--all the plains cities met destruction. Admah and Zeboiim met the same fate as Sodom and Gomorrah. (Deut 29:23)
The only special meaning in those cities were that they were:
1) Pagan worshipers
2) Inhospitable to sojourners
When I see a Pharisee, I salute his hard headedness, and inability to see the simplicity of Jesus' message--Love God with all your strength, and mind, and soul, and Love your neighbor as yourself. That is the SUM of the LAW, and the only thing real followers of Christ are interested in doing.
Jesus didn't say you can make an exception and not love those who don't believe like you.
???? Neither did Warden. Where did this come from????
It's definitely from his heart!! Don't believe his way, and you are doomed to hell. Don't see christians as persecuted, then you are a persecutor. Don't hate the same people he hates (as does the god he has created), then you are a false prophet.
jeff is an open book. Unfortunately, there just isn't much written in his book.
Last edited by Wardendresden; 03-29-2016 at 11:42 PM..
And again, Jews don't have a problem with knowing the root words for them, so you need to change your sources. I haven't had time to go into all the rest of it, yet, give me a little more time, I'm not done on touching on all of it.
Your definition of love includes keeping people in ignorance and bondage, and disobedience to the core principles contained in His law which is the framework for the Spirit to clothe, just as the flesh covers the bones. Neither the Spirit nor Yeshua are guilty of this.
And not all the Pharisees were evil, they were in fact the ruling class of the temple service, the strictest followers of the understanding that had been given them in their time, zealous for the things of G-d. The motive of the heart is what separated them, as G-d's selection of Saul, a Pharisee of Pharisees, proved. So insult away, it's not an insult to everyone. Peace
Jesus never had a kind word for any Pharisees. And note, that Paul declared himself to be an apostle. He wasn't picked by the Jerusalem Jews.
The sources I gave included Jewish sources, who aren't certain of the meaning for Sodom and Gomorrah. Where does your misinformation come from? Smart people are full of doubts and questions. Stupid people are full of confidence and arrogant. I'm at least smart enough to know there exists more than one meaning to many, many bible verses. Why aren't you that smart?
Here's a surprise. There are many words in the OT where translators simply "guessed" at the meaning because the true meaning has been forever lost. That includes Jews. A really good English translation (and all are at best mediocre) will have footnotes at the bottom explaining the loss of the meaning. I use the ESV primarily, and mine has a wealth of footnotes regarding lost definitions of word. According to one scholar, Sir Godfrey Driver:
Quote:
The text therefore is not infrequently uncertain and its meaning obscure.----The Hebrew text as thus handed down is full of errors of every kind due to defective archetypes and successive copyists' errors, confusion of letters (of which several in the Hebrew alphabet are singularly alike), omissions and insertions, displacements of words and even of whole sentences or paragraphs; and copyists' unhappy attempts to rectify mistakes have often only increased the confusion.
How does my definition of love--which is that of Jesus--keep people in ignorance and bondage? All you've done is make up things OUTSIDE the OT Bible and tried to turn it into some sort of foretelling of the future.
Please go read the gospels once more--and find a single instance--just one--of Jesus being kind to the Pharisees and Saducees.
The most important thing to remember about the Pharisees is that they were truly men of the Word. These men committed to memory all 39 books of the Old Testament, including the full texts of Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, and Deuteronomy!
But despite all their knowledge, they missed Jesus. They were committed to the truth of God yet they somehow missed the living Christ walking right beside them in the streets of Jerusalem. They missed Jesus because of the attitude in which they held truth. The Pharisees were harsh. They continually misrepresented God as a "can't wait to rain fire and brimstone on you" type of deity. They were men that Jesus said would strain at a gnat, but then swallow a camel. In other words, they majored on minor points. They made a big deal about things that really didn't matter. They were committed to truth at any cost, and they didn't care who they destroyed in order to protect that truth.
I don't know exactly what to call that spirit, but it's still alive in America today. Heretics were burned at the stake during the Middle Ages, but it isn't socially acceptable to burn people at the stake today, so now we just write books against them! Call it what you will, but I call that a pharisaical spirit.
And that spirit is widespread in the body of Christ right now. There are books being written today on things that really don't matter.It just is not that big a deal to prove yourself right on minor points of theology when billions of people are perishing without Jesus!
But the Pharisees taught us all a valuable lesson:
that it is entirely possible to be committed to the truth of the Word, and yet not be walking in the greatest of all God's commandments - LOVE.
If you can't see yourself as a Pharisee, not to worry. None of them saw themselves as anything but "bible-believers." You are committed to the truth, and you spend much time attempting to protect the truth regardless of who you harm or destroy in order to protect it as you see it. A Pharisee doesn't understand love because of Jesus’ words, ‘he who is forgiven little, loves little.’ A Pharisee loves little because he has done everything ‘right’, so he doesn’t need to be forgiven. I know what it means to be forgiven much, so much that you haven't even a clue as to how depraved I was the whole time I was a fundamentalist like you. It was in personal tragedy that I learned about being forgiven much--and why it is now as necessary for me to practice it with everyone EXCEPT, those who claim to know the bible better than anyone else. In that respect, I follow Jesus, and that galls jeffbase40 to no end. I suspect it might you as well.
Last edited by Wardendresden; 03-30-2016 at 12:00 AM..
In Paul's speech near the end of his life, he said he was a Pharisee of the Pharisees. He was appointed by the hierarchy of them to go out and round up Christians for slaughter. He was made an apostle by the risen Lord who taught him before he ever made permanent contact with any of the disciples. The risen Lord is quite capable of teaching anyone, in any time in history's timeline, and does quite capably today. Paul was approved by G-d by signs and wonders following him. Whoever G-d approves, a smart man would be wise not to slander. A stupid man would slice and dice up out of the Word whatever offends his flesh, instead of laying the knife of circumcision to his own heart. Are you a smart man?
Funny, your love doesn't seem to include those you consider Pharisees....as a wise friend pointed out to me, you are confusing making a judgment based on the evidence provided and personally passing a judgment, and all the while judging me for it! If you weren't so tunnel vision-ed to your pet belief, you'd see that what I shared is more revealing of the hearts of the priesthood you like calling fundamentalists, as a population segment, than anyone else. THEY are the ones who should be offended more than anyone else since He essentially revealed their heart is the root of the problem, if they want to hang onto their flesh and run from the circumcision-of-the-heart knife, yet they are not condemning me. Why is that, do you suppose?
Do you think it could be there that is a segment of the population who don't think the Word is just to disparage or dissect for argument, but for applying the Truth to their own hearts and tying themselves down with cords of love on the altar for the circumcision of the heart, because it WORKS? And that out of REAL love for their brethren who are MISSING IT, they might want to share what is a REALITY of the inworking of the Spirit, so that all might profit from it, if they chose to get with the Lord's "program?" Nah, it couldn't be anything as simple as that, the wicked fundys must just enjoy targeting one segment of the population. Get real. I can and will post wisdom gleaned concerning every topic in there, as He leads, and I have no respect of persons (the ROOT of which BTW, is preferring flesh over Spirit); that went on the altar nearly as soon as He started teaching me, because with it, flesh would rather be well thought of than share the unvarnished truth of His Word.
Jews haven't lost anything, the language is unique as it is structured on many levels, including numerically. But let me make it easy for you and use a source you've probably heard of.
Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
Sodom
From an unused root meaning to scorch; burnt (i.e. Volcanic or bituminous) district; Sedom, a place near the Dead Sea -- Sodom. Forms and Transliterations
בִּסְדֹֽם׃ בִסְדֹ֛ם בסדם בסדם׃ כִּסְדֹ֔ם כִּסְדֹ֣ם כִּסְדֹ֤ם כִּסְדֹ֥ם כסדם סְדֹ֑ם סְדֹ֑מָה סְדֹ֔ם סְדֹ֖ם סְדֹ֙מָה֙ סְדֹ֛ם סְדֹ֜ם סְדֹ֣ם סְדֹ֤ם סְדֹ֥ם סְדֹ֧ם סְדֹ֧מָה סְדֹֽם׃ סְדֹם֙ סְדֹם֮ סדם סדם׃ סדמה bis·ḏōm ḇis·ḏōm bisDom bisḏōm ḇisḏōm kis·ḏōm kisDom kisḏōm sə·ḏō·māh sə·ḏōm seDom səḏōm seDomah səḏōmāh visDom
I didn't make up a thing, not one thing and you know it, you're not THAT blind. As for me making it a timeline, if you know the Word then you should know that a day is as 1000 years, and that means we are 2 days past Yeshua, which makes it the 3rd day, that He told Herod that fox that He would be perfected, or completed. Since He was already perfect, that's obviously a reference to His BODY, which needs to be perfected, and the spiritual meat we need to GROW is being poured out, in this the 3rd day from Yeshua, and the 7th day (thus the LORD'S day, the Sabbath) from Adam. Simple math, lined up with the pattern, that's all. The same is shown in the Tabernacle pattern, Hebrews 9 tells us is the pattern of heavenly or spiritual things. If it's the pattern of spiritual things, then things must line up with the understanding available in that pattern, or they are in error, period.
I'm showing a revealed principle and you keep trying to turn this personal against a certain segment of the population when it's not personal at all, it's ALL ENCOMPASSING of all humanity. That's the way revealed precepts are, to be SPIRITUALLY understood. He's not singling out one set of people, He's singling out a condition of our souls universally and showing us what to do about it. He's all about revealing the condition of our fallen souls and giving us ample opportunity and wisdom on how to overcome it. HIS Love is getting your carnal ass nature out of the pit on this, the Lord's day, not letting it stay in the pit and telling it, it's ok, stay there and die, you love it anyway. Let's look at what the precept is again....
Jer. 23:14 14 I have seen also in the prophets of Jerusalem an horrible thing: THEY COMMIT ADULTERY, AND WALK IN LIES: THEY STRENGTHEN ALSO THE HANDS OF EVILDOERS, THAT NONE DOTH RETURN FROM HIS WICKEDNESS: they are all of them unto me as Sodom, and the inhabitants thereof as Gomorrah.
Sound like anyone you know? By the way, adultery is not just committed by the genders, our soul is as a female meant to be faithful and impregnated by the Spirit of G-d, and when we join ourselves to that which is not like Him it is the same as adultery, and the seeds we received from that which we have joined ourselves to, those seeds also reproduce.
Ok, let's talk about the REAL meaning behind the hospitality. Do you REALLY think that He gets all bent out of shape over you not offering a shady tent to a stranger? It's a LESSER offense than the reality behind it, remembering that EVERYTHING has a spiritual ROOT, not just a fruit you can readily spot. We have to go to Acts 17 to see the spiritual ROOT....
Now what you need to see here is that the men of Mars Hill were only interested in telling or hearing some new thing, they spent their time in NOTHING ELSE. They were not interested in being both a hearer and a doer (of the Word), they only wanted it to tickle their ears (APPEAL TO THE FLESH/Sodom, never going beyond the outside of the ear to penetrate down into the heart), appeal to their INTELLECTUAL (mind/Gomorrah) curiosity. Notice also that is says these men, were WHOLLY GIVEN OVER TO IDOLATRY.
G-d FORBID it should be something with the LIFE of the Spirit in it by which they would be forever changed from the INSIDE OUT, that would be ENGRAFTED into their heart/virgin soul, ie. BE ONE WITH IN A FRUITFUL UNION capable of reproducing the nature of the pattern Son: no, they would prefer it be a UNION INCAPABLE OF PRODUCING NEW LIFE. Flesh begets flesh and Spirit begets Spirit'; it's the law of the seed which cannot be broken = all seeds reproduce after their own kind.
An unfruitful union is exactly what happens when people only like to hear the sermonettes in the churches or elsewhere, but refuse to let the Word IMPREGNATE their heart/soul with the SEED of the Word, which is His Spirit. He said we (flesh) must decrease, so that He (Spirit) can increase.
A couple of you have asked me what measuring stick I use (hopefully for your sake's with a pure motive) and I told you. Well, here's another sure fire way to tell if you're being taught of the right spirit. Did the word or principle bring death to the flesh of you in some way, while AT THE SAME TIME (double edged sword), bring more life (freedom from the bondage engender by the flesh) to your spirit? Did it make you have to submit to decreasing in repentance? Because Satan has no interest in you decreasing to the flesh kingdom, only preferring that you increase because the more you do, the more dust he has to consume and he loves to go to and fro in your earth.
We see the truth of this with Lot and his family who were spared, because they not only took in (TO THEIR ABODE/HEART) the angels (means MESSAGES or messengers), they believed the Word (faith) given to them, and ACTED (works) upon it. And so we see that faith without works is DEAD, as is works without faith. Be ye a doer of the Word, not just a hearer only.
See, there are virgins that are virgins because they've kept themselves clean with each new revelation being unfolded and embraced wholeheartedly with repentance, and there are virgins that are virgins because they refused to allow themselves to be touched by the Spirit of the Word. Two guesses which one He's returning for, and the first guess doesn't count.
Remember the fig tree that doesn't produce fruit is CURSED and nigh unto BURNING, which is what Sodom means. Sodom and Gomorrah, our flesh and our mind, become a giant BURNT OFFERING, salted with fire, when we refuse to submit to the authority of the Spirit of G-d and His Word. This is the judgment with fire that the Word refers to, but that's for another subject and another day.
What you clearly don't comprehend is the Word is SPIRIT, written to our spirit, with the intent and pure motive of PRODUCING A SON AND HEIR. Who shall declare (means to show openly as opposed to VEILED) His generation? Father wants GRANDCHILDREN, get it?
And since He will not give His glory unto another IMAGE, any corrupt doctrine that falls short of the PERFECT IMAGE of the PATTERN SON which was MADE FROM THE WORD, mars that image, and like the pot that it is, must be broken and thrown on the scrap heap. As for the carnal mind, you still have not figured out that it is your enemy; the VERY BEST it can ever be is a servant to His Spirit, and left to it's unbridled reign, is what corrupts the Word that is Spirit. Which is why we are told to bring EVERY THOUGHT into captivity to the mind of Christ.
Think about it. Satan corrupted the Word that was spoken, Eve, a type of the virgin soul received it and accepted it and took it into herself and what happened? It brought death to the hearer instead of life. The same thing happens when you rely on your carnal mind to teach you the things that are IN AND OF the Spirit. IT HAS NEVER BEEN THERE SO HOW CAN IT TEACH YOU FROM A PLACE IT'S NEVER BEEN?
So point being, whether or not the physical sin is committed or not, if the spiritual precept is committed by the flesh of ANYONE, which includes their HEART, the price is the same. Which is why I have been steadfastly saying, that the heart of the priesthood (those that have received the baptism in His Spirit which IS the anointing required to serve as a priest) must ALSO be cleansed of the ROOT, and not just those busying themselves with the works of the FRUIT that is visible to everyone.
The principle being, that the body (those in the outer court=everyone NOT baptized into His Spirit) can only do what it "sees" (in the spirit, the soul is a spirit, too) it's head (those in inner court priesthood, baptized in His Spirit, set apart by outward anointing for service) do. The priesthood, by baptism of the Spirit, was baptized into being one with the Head, who is SPIRIT.
Which is why, hate and murder, for instance, are the same sin. One is the root (hate in the heart of priesthood), the other is the fruit (openly manifested by those in the outer court). So when they SEE you hate your brother IN YOUR HEART, they go out and murder theirs.
See, He's not only interested in the outside of the cup (all of mankind's VISIBLE works) being cleaned up, He's making sure the inside of the cup (all of the priesthood's hearts) be cleansed as well. So that in the day of judgment which is coming swiftly, NONE WILL HAVE AN EXCUSE, because the WHOLE BODY, gets cast into the fire.
And I don't blame you, either. It's not your fault that 95% of Christendom has NO CLUE what the message is, who it is to, and what it means, much less what it means to them PERSONALLY, other than a list of dos and don'ts, mostly don'ts. Again, this comes from refusing to make all things according to the pattern shown Moses in the mount, and refusing to use both the level (Word) and the plumbline (Spirit), instead leaning on the carnal minds of men to teach them. These 2 days/2000 years were the in-part realm, it could be no other way but a sifting for what is to come. He, on the other hand, has life to give and life more abundantly.
In Paul's speech near the end of his life, he said he was a Pharisee of the Pharisees. He was appointed by the hierarchy of them to go out and round up Christians for slaughter. He was made an apostle by the risen Lord who taught him before he ever made permanent contact with any of the disciples. The risen Lord is quite capable of teaching anyone, in any time in history's timeline, and does quite capably today. Paul was approved by G-d by signs and wonders following him. Whoever G-d approves, a smart man would be wise not to slander. A stupid man would slice and dice up out of the Word whatever offends his flesh, instead of laying the knife of circumcision to his own heart. Are you a smart man?
Funny, your love doesn't seem to include those you consider Pharisees....as a wise friend pointed out to me, you are confusing making a judgment based on the evidence provided and personally passing a judgment, and all the while judging me for it! If you weren't so tunnel vision-ed to your pet belief, you'd see that what I shared is more revealing of the hearts of the priesthood you like calling fundamentalists, as a population segment, than anyone else. THEY are the ones who should be offended if they want to hang onto their flesh and run from the circumcision of the heart knife, yet they are not condemning me. Why is that, do you suppose?
Do you think it could be there that is a segment of the population who don't think the Word is just to disparage or dissect for argument, but for applying the Truth to their own hearts and tying themselves down with cords of love on the altar for the circumcision of the heart, because it WORKS? And that out of REAL love for their brethren who are MISSING IT, they might want to share what is a REALITY of the inworking of the Spirit, so that all might profit from it, if they chose to get with the Lord's "program?"
Jews haven't lost anything, the language is unique as it is structured on many levels, including numerically. But let me make it easy for you and use a source you've probably heard of.
SNIPPED ALL THE REGURGITATED VERBIAGE
Which is why, hate and murder, for instance, are the same sin. One is the root (hate in the heart of priesthood), the other is the fruit (openly manifested by those in the outer court). So when they SEE you hate your brother IN YOUR HEART, they go out and murder theirs.
See, He's not only interested in the outside of the cup (all of mankind's VISIBLE works) being cleaned up, He's making sure the inside of the cup (all of the priesthood's hearts) be cleansed as well. So that in the day of judgment which is coming swiftly, NONE WILL HAVE AN EXCUSE, because the WHOLE BODY, gets cast into the fire.
And I don't blame you, either. It's not your fault that 95% of Christendom has NO CLUE what the message is, who it is to, and what it means, much less what it means to them PERSONALLY, other than a list of dos and don'ts, mostly don'ts. Again, this comes from refusing to make all things according to the pattern shown Moses in the mount, and refusing to use both the level (Word) and the plumbline (Spirit), instead leaning on the carnal minds of men to teach them. These 2 days/2000 years were the in-part realm, it could be no other way but a sifting for what is to come. He, on the other hand, has life to give and life more abundantly.
Those of us not of that fold, preay that one day, folks like you will come to "hear" the truth and "see" the ministry is based on LOVE and accept MERCY, COMPASSION and JUSTICE is ALL God requires from us.
Yes, He has LIFE to give, YOU just need to accept it--ever so simple.
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Don't believe his way, and you are doomed to hell. Don't see christians as persecuted, then you are a persecutor. Don't hate the same people he hates (as does the god he has created), then you are a false prophet.