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Old 02-14-2016, 08:55 AM
 
Location: US
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cantfindagoodname View Post
The Law did not "pass away" but that dispensation has been interrupted by the current one so it is not in effect today. If you wait long enough it will be active again.
Prove dispensationalism...
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Old 02-14-2016, 08:58 AM
 
Location: US
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
NO. I have issues with what they believe ABOUT God, as any Christian SHOULD.
Then you agree that the two religions have their own exclusive god?...That they have no connection to one another at all?...
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Old 02-14-2016, 08:59 AM
 
Location: US
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Nothing we do or do not do has anything to do with saving us. Jesus did that, period.
And how did he do that?...
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Old 02-14-2016, 09:17 AM
 
Location: US
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cantfindagoodname View Post
If you reject The Apostle Paul and consider the NT not to be scripture I doubt we will agree on much at all.
I am just trying to point you in the right direction...Do the research yourself...Buy a Tanakh...Look up all those messianic references that Christians say are about Jesus...Then you will have more questions to be answered...Go in with an open mind if you really want to know the truth...


Quote:
Jesus sent Paul and I know that. I cannot reject what I know to be true.
Ok...Prove to me that it was Jesus who sent Paul as an Apostle to the Gentiles, when Peter already stated, while Paul was present, that G-d had chosen him for that task...And is Paul the thirteenth Apostle of Jesus?...Ask yourself, if Paul was an Apostle, then why did Peter and the council send two spiritually mature men to accompany them with the letter to those at Antioch?...Ask yourself why Barnabas and Paul separated from one another, and why the letters of Barnabas are very Judaic in flavor...


Quote:
Consider that since the same NT you reject as scripture tells us Paul is The Apostle to The Gentiles also tells us that Peter went to one Gentile family then how can you accept either as true?
It is Paul that claims to be the Apostle to the Nations, no one else states that he is...He also seems to have had a falling out with the Apostles of Jesus...So, you think it is ok for him to reject what the Apostles have to say, but it is not ok for me to question what he allegedly wrote?...And how did Peter end up being crucified in Rome and be the first Pope of the Gentile Church in Rome if he was not sent by G-d to the Gentiles?...
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Old 02-14-2016, 09:20 AM
 
Location: US
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cantfindagoodname View Post
Paul was saved and commissioned as “the apostle of the Gentiles†! As we have seen, Jesus ministered exclusively to Jews and the Twelve were apostles to Israel. Jesus had promised them rulership over Israel, not over Gentiles! God began an entirely new program with Paul. The Old Testament kingdom program was in place during Jesus’ earthly ministry and would have been fulfilled if the nation had repented.! Peter was given the “gospel of the kingdom“ (gospel of the circumcision)! Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.! Acts 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.! While he did take it to one Gentile, he was told to go only to Israel! Matthew 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:! Matthew 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.! Acts 10:21 Then Peter went down to the men which were sent unto him from Cornelius; and said, Behold, I am he whom ye seek: what is the cause wherefore ye are come?! Acts 10:22 And they said, Cornelius the centurion, a just man, and one that feareth God, and of good report among all the nation of the Jews, was warned from God by an holy angel to send for thee into his house, and to hear words of thee.! Acts 10:32 Send therefore to Joppa, and call hither Simon, whose surname is Peter; he is lodged in the house of one Simon a tanner by the sea side: who, when he cometh, shall speak unto thee.! Acts 10:33 Immediately therefore I sent to thee; and thou hast well done that thou art come. Now therefore are we all here present before God, to hear all things that are commanded thee of God.! Paul was given the “gospel of Christâ€(gospel of the uncircumcision) . While he did offer it to the Jews, he was told to take it “far hence unto the Gentiles! Acts 22:17 And it came to pass, that, when I was come again to Jerusalem, even while I prayed in the temple, I was in a trance;! Acts 22:18 And saw Him saying unto me, Make haste, and get thee quickly out of Jerusalem: for they will not receive thy testimony concerning Me.! Acts 22:19 And I said, Lord, they know that I imprisoned and beat in every synagogue them that believed on thee:! Acts 22:20 And when the blood of thy martyr Stephen was shed, I also was standing by, and consenting unto his death, and kept the raiment of them that slew him.! Acts 22:21 And He said unto me, Depart: for I will send thee far hence unto the Gentiles.! Peter told Israel, at Jerusalem, to “repent and be baptized for the remission of sins… and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.â€! Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.! Paul told a group of Jews and Gentiles at Antioch ( through Christ’s death and resurrection)! Acts 13:38 Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this Man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:! Acts 13:39 And by Him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.! This effectively removed the keeping of the law from the salvation equation.! Peter was told by the Lord in His earthly ministry, that his reward would be to sit on one of twelve thrones in an earthly kingdom, “judging the twelve tribes of Israel.â€! Matthew 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed Me, in the regeneration when the Son of Man shall sit in the throne of His glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.! He was told that his destiny was a Heavenly kingdom! 1 Timothy 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.! 2 Timothy 4:18 And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto His Heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.! While Peter claimed his gospel was prophesied of in the old testament! Acts 3:24 Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.! Acts 3:25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.! Paul said his gospel was a mystery, not made known until it was revealed through him! Romans 16:25 Now to Him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,! Romans 16:26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:! Ephesians 3:1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,! Ephesians 3:2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:! Ephesians 3:3 How that by revelation He made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,! Ephesians 3:4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)! Ephesians 3:5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;! Ephesians 3:6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:! IN WHAT WAYS WERE PETER’S AND PAUL’S GOSPEL THE SAME?! Peter and Paul both preached the Death, Burial and Resurrection:! Acts 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that His soul was not left in hell, neither His flesh did see corruption.! Acts 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.! Acts 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, He hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.! Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.! Acts 3:14 But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you;! Acts 3:15 And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.! Acts 4:1 And as they spake unto the people, the priests, and the captain of the temple, and the Sadducees, came upon them,! Acts 4:2 Being grieved that they taught the people, and preached through Jesus the resurrection from the dead.! Acts 4:10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by Him doth this man stand here before you whole.! Acts 17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,! Acts 17:3 Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ.! 1 Corinthians 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;! 1 Corinthians 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.! 1 Corinthians 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;! 1 Corinthians 15:4 And that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the scriptures:! IN WHAT WAYS WERE PETER’S AND PAUL’S GOSPEL DIFFERENT?! Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.! Acts 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?! Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.! Peter preached “repent and be baptized†.! Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.! Acts 3:20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:! Paul wrote to the Corinthians “Christ sent me not to baptize! 1 Corinthians 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.! Ephesians 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,! Paul never mentions the “times of refreshingâ€.! Peter’s message certainly did have salvation in mind, but his primary emphasis was on the return of Christ for the “times of refreshingâ€.! The apostles were so anxious for that time that they asked the Lord just before His ascension, “Lord, wilt Thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?â€! Peter’s message was that Israel should repent and be baptized so that they would realize the fulfillment of the national blessings promised them upon the return of Christ.! Paul, on the other hand, while anxious to see Israel accept their Messiah, had as his primary concern the salvation of individuals. Paul’s first concern was not the national blessings but the individual blessings that come with salvation.! Peter Preached repentance, baptism, and faith as necessary for salvation! Paul Preached faith alone as necessary for salvation! Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:! Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.! Paul referred to his gospel as “my gospel†indicated his gospel was different from the gospel Jesus or the Twelve preached.! Romans 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.! Romans 16:25 Now to Him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,! 2 Timothy 2:8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:! Galatians 2:2 And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to them which were of reputation, lest by any means I should run, or had run, in vain.! Jesus taught God’s forgiveness depended upon forgiving others. Paul taught that the believer’s forgiveness was an accomplished fact. It is because of this we should forgive others.! Matthew 6:14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:! Matthew 6:15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.! Ephesians 4:32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.! Paul ministered to Gentiles under grace, apart from the Law, and disclosed the secrets the ascended and glorified Lord had revealed to him.! Paul taught that believers of his gospel, the gospel of the grace of God were members of the body of Christ with Christ as its Head.! The Lord Jesus Christ is Lord of heaven and earth, Israel and Church. God is sovereign over both His earthly people, Israel, and over His heavenly people, the Church, the body of Christ.! We share different blessings and serve under different contexts but have the same Lord.
First...You need some paragraphs in there...It's just too much to focus on...Second...What I did scan is in error...
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Old 02-14-2016, 11:02 PM
 
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
NO. I have issues with what they believe ABOUT God, as any Christian SHOULD.This is the erroneous thinking that entraps the Jews. It is NOT God that Jesus changed. It is the barbaric things Jews believed ABOUT God that Jesus came to change. Because Jews think what they believe ABOUT God is true, they think Jesus tried to change God or imply that God changed. That is NOT true. God is God and always was. It is the Jews who were wrong about Him and that is what Jesus changed.It is not my catch phrase, it is Christ's. He said God IS agape love. God IS Spirit. and God IS Holy. The Spirit of agape love IS God's Holy Spirit and Jesus brought it to His HUMAN consciousness(Spirit) so it would connect all human consciousness(Spirits) with God and be available to us all within our consciousness (Spirit).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Then you agree that the two religions have their own exclusive god?...That they have no connection to one another at all?...
That is silly. There is only ONE God. It is what the Jews erroneously believe ABOUT God that differs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Nothing we do or do not do has anything to do with saving us. Jesus did that, period. Why is this so hard to comprehend? Why do men want to place conditions on what Christ achieved that He did not require when He saved us, sinners and all???? The faith that we are to have is in the fact that Christ DID save us, NOT faith in some specific beliefs ABOUT God and Jesus. The grace is in the fact that we have nothing to do with it. We are saved, period. All we need to do now is love God and each other as Jesus instructed us to do. When we love, we have the cover of His perfect love for us all for our imperfections and we are "born of God."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
And how did he do that?...
By bringing the very consciousness (Holy Spirit) of God to His Human consciousness then dying and being "born again" as Spirit connecting ALL human consciousness to God and preventing our permanent separation from God. He also became available to us all within our consciousness as the Comforter sent in His name to guide us to the truth God has "written in our hearts" in agape love.
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Old 02-15-2016, 08:12 AM
 
Location: US
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
That is silly. There is only ONE God. It is what the Jews erroneously believe ABOUT God that differs.
Nope...The Christian god is an amalgam of different ideas...

Quote:
By bringing the very consciousness (Holy Spirit) of God to His Human consciousness then dying and being "born again" as Spirit connecting ALL human consciousness to God and preventing our permanent separation from God. He also became available to us all within our consciousness as the Comforter sent in His name to guide us to the truth God has "written in our hearts" in agape love.
Ahhh...Yea...No...
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Old 02-15-2016, 08:47 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
First...You need some paragraphs in there...It's just too much to focus on...Second...What I did scan is in error...
For some reason CD left out the breaks between paragraphs. It is simply what scripture teaches. You may not accept it, yet, but you will.
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Old 02-15-2016, 08:49 AM
 
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Originally Posted by cantfindagoodname View Post
For some reason CD left out the breaks between paragraphs. It is simply what scripture teaches. You may not accept it, yet, but you will.
That's typical evangelical scare tactics...And it is not what Scripture teaches, because the Scriptures that are alluded to in the New Testament are those of the Tanakh...
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Old 02-15-2016, 08:50 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
I am just trying to point you in the right direction...Do the research yourself...Buy a Tanakh...Look up all those messianic references that Christians say are about Jesus...Then you will have more questions to be answered...Go in with an open mind if you really want to know the truth...




Ok...Prove to me that it was Jesus who sent Paul as an Apostle to the Gentiles, when Peter already stated, while Paul was present, that G-d had chosen him for that task...And is Paul the thirteenth Apostle of Jesus?...Ask yourself, if Paul was an Apostle, then why did Peter and the council send two spiritually mature men to accompany them with the letter to those at Antioch?...Ask yourself why Barnabas and Paul separated from one another, and why the letters of Barnabas are very Judaic in flavor...




It is Paul that claims to be the Apostle to the Nations, no one else states that he is...He also seems to have had a falling out with the Apostles of Jesus...So, you think it is ok for him to reject what the Apostles have to say, but it is not ok for me to question what he allegedly wrote?...And how did Peter end up being crucified in Rome and be the first Pope of the Gentile Church in Rome if he was not sent by G-d to the Gentiles?...
I understand it all very well. I am sorry you reject The Apostle that God used to usher in the current dispensation. Peter was never a Pope either. He never lead a Gentile church anywhere.
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