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those who are self-deluded believe there is no problem..in reality these example either prove errors or proves the god of the OT is the author of confusion..
Thank you for confirming my point about those who do not believe.
I've missed about 10 pages of comments on this thread, apparently. It's hard to keep track of things. In any event, we just had that discussion on another thread. I'd direct you to page 2 of this thread where I explained my stance on the issue.
I've missed about 10 pages of comments on this thread, apparently. It's hard to keep track of things. In any event, we just had that discussion on another thread. I'd direct you to page 2 of this thread where I explained my stance on the issue.
Friberg Greek Lexicon: 6268 dia,konoj, ou, o` and h` (1) generally of a person who renders helpful service servant, helper (MT 20.26; possibly RO 16.1); (2) as an official in the church; deacon, both masculine (1T 3.8) and feminine (probably RO 16.1); (3) as a government official minister, agent (RO 13.4); (4) as one who serves a high official attendant, servant (MT 22.13)
UBS GReek Lexicon: 1475 dia,konoj , ou m and f servant; helper, minister; deacon; deaconess (Ro 16.1); a=ra Cristo.j a`marti,aj dÅ Does Christ serve the interests of sin? (Ga 2.17)
LOUW-NIda GReek Lexicon: 35.20 qera,pwn, ontoj m ; u`phre,thj, ou m ; dia,konoj, ou m and f: (derivatives of qerapeu,w, u`phrete,w, and diakone,w 'to serve,' 35.19) a person who renders service - 'servant.' qera,pwn: Mwu?sh/j me.n pisto.j evn o[lw| tw|/ oi;kw| auvtou/ w`j qera,pwn 'Moses was faithful in God's whole house as a servant' He 3.5. u`phre,thj: eivj tou/to ga.r w;fqhn soi, proceiri,sasqai, se u`phre,thn 'I have appeared to you to appoint you as (my) servant' Ac 26.16. In the NT u`phre,thj is employed to refer to many diverse types of servants, such as attendants to a king, officers of the Sanhedrin, attendants of magistrates, and, especially in the Gospel of John, Jewish Temple guards. dia,konoj: avllV o]j eva.n qe,lh| evn u`mi/n me,gaj gene,sqai e;stai u`mw/n dia,konoj 'if anyone of you wants to be great, he must be the servant of the rest' Mt 20.26.
In rendering qera,pwn, u`phre,thj, and dia,konoj in the sense of 'servant,' it is important to avoid a term which would be too specific, for example, 'one who serves meals' or 'one who works around the house.' It may, in fact, be necessary to use an expression which means essentially 'helper.'
It is a helper, servant, minister (in a secular sense) and does not convey the idea of teaching anything religious. In fact Phoebe could have been the church secretary. The English word "Deacon" is a title that does not actually match the Greek very closely these days.
Oh and masculine or Feminine word gender does not impact the physical gender of the subject. Jesus is described using feminine Greek words and he is not a she.
Friberg Greek Lexicon: 6268 dia,konoj, ou, o` and h` (1) generally of a person who renders helpful service servant, helper (MT 20.26; possibly RO 16.1); (2) as an official in the church; deacon, both masculine (1T 3.8) and feminine (probably RO 16.1); (3) as a government official minister, agent (RO 13.4); (4) as one who serves a high official attendant, servant (MT 22.13)
UBS GReek Lexicon: 1475 dia,konoj , ou m and f servant; helper, minister; deacon; deaconess (Ro 16.1); a=ra Cristo.j a`marti,aj dÅ Does Christ serve the interests of sin? (Ga 2.17)
LOUW-NIda GReek Lexicon: 35.20 qera,pwn, ontoj m ; u`phre,thj, ou m ; dia,konoj, ou m and f: (derivatives of qerapeu,w, u`phrete,w, and diakone,w 'to serve,' 35.19) a person who renders service - 'servant.' qera,pwn: Mwu?sh/j me.n pisto.j evn o[lw| tw|/ oi;kw| auvtou/ w`j qera,pwn 'Moses was faithful in God's whole house as a servant' He 3.5. u`phre,thj: eivj tou/to ga.r w;fqhn soi, proceiri,sasqai, se u`phre,thn 'I have appeared to you to appoint you as (my) servant' Ac 26.16. In the NT u`phre,thj is employed to refer to many diverse types of servants, such as attendants to a king, officers of the Sanhedrin, attendants of magistrates, and, especially in the Gospel of John, Jewish Temple guards. dia,konoj: avllV o]j eva.n qe,lh| evn u`mi/n me,gaj gene,sqai e;stai u`mw/n dia,konoj 'if anyone of you wants to be great, he must be the servant of the rest' Mt 20.26.
In rendering qera,pwn, u`phre,thj, and dia,konoj in the sense of 'servant,' it is important to avoid a term which would be too specific, for example, 'one who serves meals' or 'one who works around the house.' It may, in fact, be necessary to use an expression which means essentially 'helper.'
It is a helper, servant, minister (in a secular sense) and does not convey the idea of teaching anything religious. In fact Phoebe could have been the church secretary. The English word "Deacon" is a title that does not actually match the Greek very closely these days.
Oh and masculine or Feminine word gender does not impact the physical gender of the subject. Jesus is described using feminine Greek words and he is not a she.
I guess I don't see Phoebe as a "deaconess" as 1 Tim 3 describes it. For one, 1 Tim 3 describes the deacons as having wives. Since the early church wasn't progressive to the point where it ordained lesbians, that would mean that she was not qualified to be one.
She was a servant of the church. She was probably very valued, but she was not a pastor or a teacher.
"As revealed by Jesus". We read about Jesus in the scriptures. Does the Spirit conflict with the words of Jesus? If so, where? I have no problem with the words of Christ. Do you? Jesus, when promising the Spirit, never told us the Spirit would conflict with or negate scripture.
FYI, Mystic told me that yes, it is possible that the second half of John 3:16 is a mistake, likely not of the Spirit. Nevertheless, what does "perish" mean to you?
Apparently, the author of this believed that the spirit of those who do not commit to the Way would be destroyed, and I have to agree with Mystic, it is a failure to understand the grace of God and the consequence of error. This is one place where scripture conflicts with the Spirit, and it reflects one of the controversies of early Christianity.
Apparently, the author of this believed that the spirit of those who do not commit to the Way would be destroyed, and I have to agree with Mystic, it is a failure to understand the grace of God and the consequence of error. This is one place where scripture conflicts with the Spirit, and it reflects one of the controversies of early Christianity.
Either that or God is different than you think. Nice backtrack, btw.
Either that or God is different than you think. Nice backtrack, btw.
Well, always possible, but the point remains that the ultimate destination of the "reprobate" is STILL being debated in the church, but there is only ONE answer consistent with Grace, and that is correction rather than punishment.
Well, always possible, but the point remains that the ultimate destination of the "reprobate" is STILL being debated in the church, but there is only ONE answer consistent with Grace, and that is correction rather than punishment.
Your opinion. Like most liberals, you ignore God's holiness as a factor. Nevertheless, it is disingenuous to say your theology is what Jesus revealed.
Your opinion. Like most liberals, you ignore God's holiness as a factor. Nevertheless, it is disingenuous to say your theology is what Jesus revealed.
I don't ignore God's "holiness," I just don't see it the way you do..... lessee where did I post that? brb
Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift
Holy?
The commonly promulgated view seems to be as stated in What Does The Word Holy Mean? Bible Definition of Holy
God is holy but what exactly does the word holy mean? What does the Bible define as holy?
Root Word for Holy
The Hebrew word for holy is “qodesh” and means “apartness, set-apartness, separateness, sacredness” and I would add that it should also be “otherness, transcendent and totally other” because God is totally above His creation and His creatures, including us. Holy has the idea of heaviness or weight of glory. In the New Testament, the word for holy is “hagios” and means set apart, reverend, sacred, and worthy of veneration.” This word applies to God because God Himself is totally other, separate, sacred, transcendent, reverend, and set apart from every created thing. Since God is spirit this is why the Third Person of the Trinity is called the Holy Spirit. He too is fully God and all three Persons of the Trinity are holy and have the weight of glory abounding in them....
Really? THIS is "Abba" as Jesus presented our relationship?
I'm sorry, but it sounds like religious twaddle to me.
So, "Holy" means more like "dedicated" if you can see the difference.
BTW, if I am "disingenuous," everyone who realizes that there is controversy, but presents his version of the Gospel is also. Jimmyj, do you believe what you teach to have been revealed by Jesus?
Jimmie, am I thinking of someone else or aren't you the Southern Baptists that does have female pastors?
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