The Phrase 'Word of God' and its usage in the New Testament. (believing, disciple)
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Do yourself a favor rbbi and do even a small study of the canon and how and when it was established because you really have no idea what you are talking about. The canon has changed over time, so what do you do with that?
I did do a study on it, and it revealed what the canon was at the time of (and about 200 years before) Jesus/Paul. So that means, THAT would be what Paul was referring to, and it matters not what was changed (or not) over time. It was those same 24 books listed, the only difference in some reference as to whether or not they were counting one as two in a couple of instances, but the same literature. Peace
Whats the matter pin don't like someone pointing out the truth.
And if you are trying to be some type of prophet acting as if you know me you are way off. But then again I have read some of your post and you are way off on them also. Must be a habit of yours.
Whats the matter is you have a hard time counting.
I did do a study on it, and it revealed what the canon was at the time of (and about 200 years before) Jesus/Paul. So that means, THAT would be what Paul was referring to, and it matters not what was changed (or not) over time. It was those same 24 books listed, the only difference in some reference as to whether or not they were counting one as two in a couple of instances, but the same literature. Peace
Did you notice the canon changed over time? now why would that be?
And whether you know it or not you proved my point by stating Paul was only referring to the canon when he said all scripture was inspired by God, because in the bible of Paul's day there was those other books besides the canon.
On what authority do you base that the canon was closed at this time? Obviously the Septuagint had those other books in it so the canon was not closed during the time of its writing. And both Paul and Jesus used those other writings; but I guess you believe they did not think they were scripture because a man made canon says so.
Justin Martyr in his day complained that the Jewish scribes were deleting scripture that clearly showed Jesus as the Messiah.
The reason Martyr made this claim is because the Karaites/Masoretic Text scribes (which almost all bibles today are based on) were deleting things from the Septuagint bible which clearly pointed to Jesus Christ.
Not only were the Karaites/Masoretic Text scribes deleting whole books of sacred text; as is witnessed in that those books in the Septuagint are not in any copy of the Karaites/Masoretic Text, but were also adding there own commentary to the scriptures.
The Karaites/Masoretic Text scribes are the ones who added the vowels and punctuation marks to the Hebrew tests. These vowels and punctuations are basically a commentary on the scriptures made by these Karaites/Masoretic Text scribes. And these commentaries by these scribes have all been added to the scriptures.They are NOT scripture, they are commentaries on the scripture.
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Adam Clarke says in the General Preface of his biblical commentary published in 1810
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“The Masorets were the most extensive Jewish commentators which that nation could ever boast. The system of punctuation, probably invented by them, is a continual gloss on the Law and the Prophets; their vowel points, and prosaic and metrical accents, &c., give every word to which they are affixed a peculiar kind of meaning, which in their simple state, multitudes of them can by no means bear. The vowel points alone add whole conjugations to the language. This system is one of the most artificial, particular, and extensive comments ever written on the Word of God; for there is not one word in the Bible that is not the subject of a particular gloss through its influence.'
And it was these same Karaites/Masoretic Text scribes Jesus said these things about.
"You neither know Me nor My Father. If you had known Me, then you would have known My Father also. ...Where I go, you are not able to come ... You are from below; I am from above. You are from this world, I am not from this world. ... If you were children of Abraham, you would do the works of Abraham. ... You do the works of your father. ... If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I went forth and have come from God. For I have not come from Myself, but that one sent Me. Why do you not understand My speech? Because you are not able to hear My Word.. You are of your father the Diabolical One, and the lusts of your father you wish to do. That one was a murderer from the beginning, and he has not stood in the truth because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own, because he is a liar, and the father of it"
Notice these Jewish scribes Jesus said could not hear his words and only did the works of their father the devil. And it is these same Jewish scribes you believe kept the scriptures perfectly.
Think about it.
Now lets look at what these Karaites/Masoretic Text scribes considered not to be scripture. You will notice that these scriptures from the book of Wisdom are exactly what Martyr said these scribes were deleting.
A Clear picture pointing to Jesus Christ
Wisdom 2:12-24
12 Therefore let us lie in wait for the righteous; because he is not for our turn, and he is clean contrary to our doings: he upbraideth us with our offending the law, and objecteth to our infamy the transgressings of our education. 13 He professeth to have the knowledge of God: and he calleth himself the child of the Lord. 14 He was made to reprove our thoughts. 15 He is grievous unto us even to behold: for his life is not like other men’s, his ways are of another fashion. 16 We are esteemed of him as counterfeits: he abstaineth from our ways as from filthiness: he pronounceth the end of the just to be blessed, and maketh his boast that God is his father.
17 Let us see if his words be true: and let us prove what shall happen in the end of him. 18 For if the just man be the son of God, he will help him, and deliver him from the hand of his enemies. 19 Let us examine him with despitefulness and torture, that we may know his meekness, and prove his patience. 20 Let us condemn him with a shameful death: for by his own saying he shall be respected.
21 Such things they did imagine, and were deceived: for their own wickedness hath blinded them. 22 As for the mysteries of God, they knew them not: neither hoped they for the wages of righteousness, nor discerned a reward for blameless souls.
23 For God created man to be immortal, and made him to be an image of his own eternity. 24 Nevertheless through envy of the devil came death into the world: and they that do hold of his side do find it.
We can also see where Paul used the book of Wisdom as support for the two vessels made out of the same lump of clay.
Vessels out of the same lump of clay
Wisdom 15:7
7 For the potter, tempering soft earth, fashioneth every vessel with much labour for our service: yea, of the same clay he maketh both the vessels that serve for clean uses, and likewise also all such as serve to the contrary: but what is the use of either sort, the potter himself is the judge.
For myself I see these as scripture even though they are not in the man made canons. You on the other hand do not believe them to be scripture because of a man made canon.
So you can keep you man made canon, for myself I believe all scripture is inspired by God, but not everything in the bible is scripture and not every scripture is in the bible.
The book of wisdom. Really.
You use a composed work to argues that another work is composed.
Of all the convoluted accusations.
"I have aroused one from the north, and he has come; From the rising of the sun he will call on My name; And he will come upon rulers as upon mortar, Even as the potter treads clay."
2 Samuel 17:27-29 Now when David had come to Mahanaim, Shobi the son of Nahash from Rabbah of the sons of Ammon, Machir the son of Ammiel from Lo-debar, and Barzillai the Gileadite from Rogelim, brought beds, basins, pottery, wheat, barley, flour, parched grain, beans, lentils, parched seeds, honey, curds, sheep, and cheese of the herd, for David and for the people who were with him, to eat; for they said, "The people are hungry and weary and thirsty in the wilderness."
1 Chronicles 4:21-23 The sons of Shelah the son of Judah were Er the father of Lecah and Laadah the father of Mareshah, and the families of the house of the linen workers at Beth-ashbea; and Jokim, the men of Cozeba, Joash, Saraph, who ruled in Moab, and Jashubi-lehem. And the records are ancient. These were the potters and the inhabitants of Netaim and Gederah; they lived there with the king for his work.
You turn things around! Shall the potter be considered as equal with the clay, That what is made would say to its maker, "He did not make me"; Or what is formed say to him who formed it, "He has no understanding"?
But now, O LORD, You are our Father, We are the clay, and You our potter; And all of us are the work of Your hand. Jeremiah 18:1-10 The word which came to Jeremiah from the LORD saying, "Arise and go down to the potter's house, and there I will announce My words to you." Then I went down to the potter's house, and there he was, making something on the wheel. read more.
Thus says the LORD, "Go and buy a potter's earthenware jar, and take some of the elders of the people and some of the senior priests.
Romans 9:19-21 You will say to me then, "Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?" On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, "Why did you make me like this," will it? Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use?
"I have aroused one from the north, and he has come; From the rising of the sun he will call on My name; And he will come upon rulers as upon mortar, Even as the potter treads clay."
2 Samuel 17:27-29 Now when David had come to Mahanaim, Shobi the son of Nahash from Rabbah of the sons of Ammon, Machir the son of Ammiel from Lo-debar, and Barzillai the Gileadite from Rogelim, brought beds, basins, pottery, wheat, barley, flour, parched grain, beans, lentils, parched seeds, honey, curds, sheep, and cheese of the herd, for David and for the people who were with him, to eat; for they said, "The people are hungry and weary and thirsty in the wilderness."
1 Chronicles 4:21-23 The sons of Shelah the son of Judah were Er the father of Lecah and Laadah the father of Mareshah, and the families of the house of the linen workers at Beth-ashbea; and Jokim, the men of Cozeba, Joash, Saraph, who ruled in Moab, and Jashubi-lehem. And the records are ancient. These were the potters and the inhabitants of Netaim and Gederah; they lived there with the king for his work.
You turn things around! Shall the potter be considered as equal with the clay, That what is made would say to its maker, "He did not make me"; Or what is formed say to him who formed it, "He has no understanding"?
But now, O LORD, You are our Father, We are the clay, and You our potter; And all of us are the work of Your hand. Jeremiah 18:1-10 The word which came to Jeremiah from the LORD saying, "Arise and go down to the potter's house, and there I will announce My words to you." Then I went down to the potter's house, and there he was, making something on the wheel. read more.
Thus says the LORD, "Go and buy a potter's earthenware jar, and take some of the elders of the people and some of the senior priests.
Romans 9:19-21 You will say to me then, "Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?" On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, "Why did you make me like this," will it? Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use?
And where in all that does it say anything about out of the same lump a vessel of honor and dishonor? Yet if you read the Wisdom scripture it says the same thing Paul does. Go figure.
And where in all that does it say anything about out of the same lump a vessel of honor and dishonor? Yet if you read the Wisdom scripture it says the same thing Paul does. Go figure.
Did you notice the canon changed over time? now why would that be?
And whether you know it or not you proved my point by stating Paul was only referring to the canon when he said all scripture was inspired by God, because in the bible of Paul's day there was those other books besides the canon.
Other books, does NOT equal canon as any Jew (or Christian) will tell you. You're just reaching for straws to keep your false doctrine not based on canon. Peace
Other books, does NOT equal canon as any Jew (or Christian) will tell you. You're just reaching for straws to keep your false doctrine not based on canon. Peace
Christian Bibles range from the 66 books of the Protestant canon to the 81 books of the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church canon. The Tanakh (Hebrew Bible) contains 24 books divided into three parts: the five books of the Torah (teaching); the Nevi'im (prophets); and the Ketuvim (writings).
Which books are you using as a rule or measuring stick?
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