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Why did God need Moses to write them down if everyone already knew them.
Why is it called the mosaic law or the law of Moses?
And you are clearly missing something here rbbi, the law was not given to the gentiles yet it was the Babylonians who FIRST published the laws.
No, you're saying new developments in archeology that provided better dating of events and peoples, have to give way to your theory, which is false. I've ALWAYS known that Abraham would likely have had to have been the one to speak of the Torah to the Babylonians (not the first time I've heard this).
And again, you're ignoring what Abraham said and the evidence of Adam's sons. Ignoring evidence means your bias is more important than the truth, because the TRUTH of the matter is not really what interests you, but rather keeping your theory afloat.
Obviously, they needed to be written down for many reasons, not the least of which no doubt is as the world's population grew and people spread out, those that knew couldn't be in all places at once in order to share. And it's called the law of Moses, because he was the one credited with WRITING it down (or at least having it transcribed) by order of G-d. No different than you call John the book of John, 1, 2, and 3. Peace
No, you're saying new developments in archeology that provided better dating of events and peoples, have to give way to your theory, which is false. I've ALWAYS known that Abraham would likely have had to have been the one to speak of the Torah to the Babylonians (not the first time I've heard this).
And again, you're ignoring what Abraham said and the evidence of Adam's sons. Ignoring evidence means your bias is more important than the truth, because the TRUTH of the matter is not really what interests you, but rather keeping your theory afloat.
Obviously, they needed to be written down for many reasons, not the least of which no doubt is as the world's population grew and people spread out, those that knew couldn't be in all places at once in order to share. And it's called the law of Moses, because he was the one credited with WRITING it down (or at least having it transcribed) by order of G-d. No different than you call John the book of John, 1, 2, and 3. Peace
Rbbi Abraham did not live by the law of Moses, it was the gospel that was preached to Abraham, that inward law that is written on the hearts and minds of humankind. That inward law is the law that was in effect from the days of Adam and has nothing to do with the laws of Moses.
Gal. 3:8
And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham,*saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
The law of Moses was not given until 430 years AFTER.
Gal. 3:17
And this I say,*that*the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect
It is this law that came 430 years later that the lying pen of the scribes added to, which can easily be seen in the Babylonian law I gave a link to.
And it is because these laws came from Babylon we see Jesus correcting the people over them showing the people what Jeremiah said was true that the lying pen of the scribes added to the law of Moses.
We see this same lying pen of the Scribe in the horrendous eye for an eye doctrine that the Scribes attributed to Moses in Exodus 21:21-24, Leviticus 24:19-20 and Deuteronomy 19:21
*
Exodus 21:22-24
22 If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman’s husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. 23 And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life, 24 Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,
Leviticus 24:19-20
19 And if a man cause a blemish in his neighbour; as he hath done, so shall it be done to him; 20 Breach for breach, eye for eye, tooth for tooth: as he hath caused a blemish in a man, so shall it be done to him again.
Deuteronomy 19:21
21 And thine eye shall not pity; but life shall go for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot.
*
But Jesus says that ye resist not evil.
*
Matthew 5:38-42
38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: 39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also. 41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain. 42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.
*
Jesus’ words are in total contradiction to what is written in Exodus 21:21-24, Leviticus 24:19-20 and Deuteronomy 19:21.
So ask yourself why would Jesus have an issue with this eye for an eye law if it came from God? Especially as Jesus said he and the Father were of one accord.
Rbbi Abraham did not live by the law of Moses, it was the gospel that was preached to Abraham, that inward law that is written on the hearts and minds of humankind. That inward law is the law that was in effect from the days of Adam and has nothing to do with the laws of Moses.
Gal. 3:8
And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham,*saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
The law of Moses was not given until 430 years AFTER.
Gal. 3:17
And this I say,*that*the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect
It is this law that came 430 years later that the lying pen of the scribes added to, which can easily be seen in the Babylonian law I gave a link to.
And it is because these laws came from Babylon we see Jesus correcting the people over them showing the people what Jeremiah said was true that the lying pen of the scribes added to the law of Moses.
We see this same lying pen of the Scribe in the horrendous eye for an eye doctrine that the Scribes attributed to Moses in Exodus 21:21-24, Leviticus 24:19-20 and Deuteronomy 19:21
*
Exodus 21:22-24
22 If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman’s husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. 23 And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life, 24 Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,
Leviticus 24:19-20
19 And if a man cause a blemish in his neighbour; as he hath done, so shall it be done to him; 20 Breach for breach, eye for eye, tooth for tooth: as he hath caused a blemish in a man, so shall it be done to him again.
Deuteronomy 19:21
21 And thine eye shall not pity; but life shall go for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot.
*
But Jesus says that ye resist not evil.
*
Matthew 5:38-42
38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: 39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also. 41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain. 42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.
*
Jesus’ words are in total contradiction to what is written in Exodus 21:21-24, Leviticus 24:19-20 and Deuteronomy 19:21.
So ask yourself why would Jesus have an issue with this eye for an eye law if it came from God? Especially as Jesus said he and the Father were of one accord.
Again, you are so intent on trying to prove the scriptures are errors, you lack in that you are seeking that and not seeking wisdom. That means the motive of your heart is preventing you from knowing the truth. Change the motive of your heart, and see how fast your vision changes.
Did you notice that Abraham did a sacrifice G-d told him to do? Did you catch the fact that it was a FIRST FRUITS sacrifice? Do you understand that those things are under the law? Do you understand that faith WITHOUT works (of the law) is DEAD, as is works (of the law) WITHOUT faith? Do you understand that the reason Abraham is the father (father as in ORIGIN of time, place, position) of ALL is precisely BECAUSE he DID BOTH, not one or the other?
As for the lying pen of the scribes, Jeremiah was allowed by G-d to be a prophet, but he was from a priestly family that was taken captive to Babylon. So as punishment, he was no longer allowed to be in the line of succession of the priests, but because he himself had a heart after G-d, He used him to be a prophet. So Jeremiah had an ax to grind with the generation that had cost him his priestly station, including the prophets that spoke for self-gain in that generation. It does NOT mean that every generation did what they did, obviously, and we're stuck with the results. If errors in a book landed you with your temple destroyed and in captivity, I'd say it's a safe bet, they went to weeding out the problems pretty fast, seeing how only renewed favor from G-d was going to get them released from judgment.
Go further in Galatians....
Gal 3:21-22 Is the law then against the promises of G-d? G-d forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. 22 But the scripture hath concluded ALL UNDER SIN, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
Now note, that the law is not against the promises of G-d, so if it's not against the promises of G-d, how then, do you claim it violates ANYTHING of G-d?
Also note that the SCRIPTURES (that means the OT) hath concluded ALL UNDER SIN. That means for it to do that, IT'S STILL IN EFFECT ON THE ALL, because this was written AFTER HE ASCENDED.
Now why does it do that? Because ALL must be CONDEMNED BY THE LAW before they can be saved (initial salvation experience) by faith, because what you are being saved FROM are penalties for not keeping the law, which NO MAN could do perfectly, but Abraham's SEED (seed singular = Christ the Spirit Seed) that we receive, HE KEEPS THE LAW PERFECTLY. Which is why He said He didn't come to destroy it, but to fulfill it. And yet, looky here, fulfill is not what you all think it is, because this in Galatians was written AFTER He died, was resurrected, and even ascended.
What changed, was that staying the hand of judgment to the flesh of G-d which was done previously only to those that kept the law of G-d (which is WHY He did so many things for them because of COVENANTAL responsibilities) was now changed to include the gentiles via faith in Christ Jesus, which also meant that they were grafted into the previous covenant, because they too had been made aware of the G-d of Abraham.
The problem that came of course, was that the branch did exactly what it was told not to do, and boasted itself against the tree it had been grafted into, and threw away it's foundation in ignorance of covenant responsibilities inherent in such a thing by BOTH sides of the covenant parties.
The parts you are so offended by in Leviticus have to do with the MEASURE of repayment for damages being compared, not actual body parts. Which should be obvious, since how is a MAN to repay "an eye for an eye" for the loss of a child in a WOMAN'S womb? The only fault with the system was not that it was not righteous, as we already read in Galatians that it was, but rather that it was impossible for an accurate repayment to occur with such a loss, because only the Spirit can bring true restitution to wrongs suffered of such a fashion.
As I have said many times, the scriptures are the bones, the flesh of Christ (which is SPIRIT) is the flesh that covers those bones, by way of fulfilling them with Himself through our agreement with them. Just because you like the look of your flesh, shouldn't mean you hate your bones, because the flesh needs the bones to remain upright.
I realize all of this is probably going to fall on deaf ears, because until you change the motive of your heart, you're going to be a "scripture basher" unable to change without repentance, however I wrote all this for "whosoever will". Peace
Again, you are so intent on trying to prove the scriptures are errors, you lack in that you are seeking that and not seeking wisdom. That means the motive of your heart is preventing you from knowing the truth. Change the motive of your heart, and see how fast your vision changes.
Are you sure that it me and not you?
Quote:
Did you notice that Abraham did a sacrifice G-d told him to do? Did you catch the fact that it was a FIRST FRUITS sacrifice? Do you understand that those things are under the law? Do you understand that faith WITHOUT works (of the law) is DEAD, as is works (of the law) WITHOUT faith? Do you understand that the reason Abraham is the father (father as in ORIGIN of time, place, position) of ALL is precisely BECAUSE he DID BOTH, not one or the other?
You keep reading scripture literally not seeming to realize that it was written in type as a focal point to Christ.
Quote:
As for the lying pen of the scribes, Jeremiah was allowed by G-d to be a prophet, but he was from a priestly family that was taken captive to Babylon. So as punishment, he was no longer allowed to be in the line of succession of the priests, but because he himself had a heart after G-d, He used him to be a prophet. So Jeremiah had an ax to grind with the generation that had cost him his priestly station, including the prophets that spoke for self-gain in that generation. It does NOT mean that every generation did what they did, obviously, and we're stuck with the results. If errors in a book landed you with your temple destroyed and in captivity, I'd say it's a safe bet, they went to weeding out the problems pretty fast, seeing how only renewed favor from G-d was going to get them released from judgment.
So are you now admitting the lying pen of the scribes added to the Mosaic law? And is it not obvious that they have not yet all been weeded out as Israel is still under judgment.
Quote:
Go further in Galatians....
Gal 3:21-22 Is the law then against the promises of G-d? G-d forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
But the scripture hath concluded ALL UNDER SIN, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
Now note, that the law is not against the promises of G-d, so if it's not against the promises of G-d, how then, do you claim it violates ANYTHING of G-d?
I don't claim the law or the scriptures are against or violates anything of God. My claim is that there are scriptures in the bible but not everything in the bible is scripture.
Can you comprehend that? so far it does not look like it.
Quote:
Also note that the SCRIPTURES (that means the OT) hath concluded ALL UNDER SIN. That means for it to do that, IT'S STILL IN EFFECT ON THE ALL, because this was written AFTER HE ASCENDED.
Now why does it do that? Because ALL must be CONDEMNED BY THE LAW before they can be saved (initial salvation experience) by faith, because what you are being saved FROM are penalties for not keeping the law, which NO MAN could do perfectly, but Abraham's SEED (seed singular = Christ the Spirit Seed) that we receive, HE KEEPS THE LAW PERFECTLY. Which is why He said He didn't come to destroy it, but to fulfill it. And yet, looky here, fulfill is not what you all think it is, because this in Galatians was written AFTER He died, was resurrected, and even ascended.
What changed, was that staying the hand of judgment to the flesh of G-d which was done previously only to those that kept the law of G-d (which is WHY He did so many things for them because of COVENANTAL responsibilities) was now changed to include the gentiles via faith in Christ Jesus, which also meant that they were grafted into the previous covenant, because they too had been made aware of the G-d of Abraham.
Quote:
The problem that came of course, was that the branch did exactly what it was told not to do, and boasted itself against the tree it had been grafted into, and threw away it's foundation in ignorance of covenant responsibilities inherent in such a thing by BOTH sides of the covenant parties.
Your confusion the old covenant with the new covenant.
Quote:
The parts you are so offended by in Leviticus have to do with the MEASURE of repayment for damages being compared, not actual body parts. Which should be obvious, since how is a MAN to repay "an eye for an eye" for the loss of a child in a WOMAN'S womb? The only fault with the system was not that it was not righteous, as we already read in Galatians that it was, but rather that it was impossible for an accurate repayment to occur with such a loss, because only the Spirit can bring true restitution to wrongs suffered.
So you believe God gave laws unrighteous laws. noted.
Quote:
I realize all of this is probably going to fall on deaf ears, because until you change the motive of your heart, you're going to be a "scripture basher" unable to change without repentance, however I wrote all this for "whosoever will". Peace
Whatever. And you never said thanks for enlightening you about the fact that the Mosaic laws came 430 AFTER the time of Abraham. But of course that scripture must be wrong in order for you to be right that the mosaic law was in effect during the days of Abraham.
You keep reading scripture literally not seeming to realize that it was written in type as a focal point to Christ.
So are you now admitting the lying pen of the scribes added to the Mosaic law? And is it not obvious that they have not yet all been weeded out as Israel is still under judgment.
I don't claim the law or the scriptures are against or violates anything of God. My claim is that there are scriptures in the bible but not everything in the bible is scripture.
Can you comprehend that? so far it does not look like it.
Your confusion the old covenant with the new covenant.
So you believe God gave laws unrighteous laws. noted.
Whatever. And you never said thanks for enlightening you about the fact that the Mosaic laws came 430 AFTER the time of Abraham. But of course that scripture must be wrong in order for you to be right that the mosaic law was in effect during the days of Abraham.
Pretty sure, yeah. See, I repented of ever knowing ANYTHING and asked HIM to teach me. I didn't decide to bash what I didn't understand.
I see. So you weren't being literal when you said the whole "eye for an eye" thing, right?
Your claim is that which contradicts what Galatians said, as well as many other scriptures in the NT concerning the validity of the OT scriptures being just that, SCRIPTURES.
I'm not confusing anything. You don't understand either, or you wouldn't negate one.
I never said G-d gave unrighteous laws and neither did the writer of Galatians you quoted, nor did Jesus or the rest of the disciples who could have railed on any of it at any time, yet they who were 2000 years closer to the fact than you are, somehow managed to restrain themselves from doing so.
I didn't need enlightening, I'm aware the Mosaic laws were given AGAIN to Moses later and told to be recorded THIS time. The fact you refuse to see the Mosaic law being played out in front of your eyes in the sacrifices of both of Adam's sons, Cain's judgment, and Abraham's sacrifice, means exactly what I said it does. Until repentance comes, you will not be able to see the truth. Repent and see how fast your vision changes. Peace
Pretty sure, yeah. See, I repented of ever knowing ANYTHING and asked HIM to teach me. I didn't decide to bash what I didn't understand.
Whose basing what they don't understand? I understand just fine that the Mosaic law was written AFTER the Babylonian law and Jesus disagreed with it. I will trust Jesus view on it thanks.
Quote:
I see. So you weren't being literal when you said the whole "eye for an eye" thing, right?
Your claim is that which contradicts what Galatians said, as well as many other scriptures in the NT concerning the validity of the OT scriptures being just that, SCRIPTURES.
It does not contradict scripture rbbi. It does however contradict the view of those who hold everything in the bible is scripture.
Quote:
I'm not confusing anything. You don't understand either, or you wouldn't negate one.
So I have to agree with you because you are right and I am wrong. I will let love of God and Gods love for humankind separate who is right and who is wrong.
Quote:
I never said G-d gave unrighteous laws and neither did the writer of Galatians you quoted, nor did Jesus or the rest of the disciples who could have railed on any of it at any time, yet they who were 2000 years closer to the fact than you are, somehow managed to restrain themselves from doing so.
Speaking of the eye for an eye law you stated
Quote:
The only fault with the system was not that it was not righteous
If something is not righteous it is unrighteous.
Quote:
I didn't need enlightening, I'm aware the Mosaic laws were given AGAIN to Moses later and told to be recorded THIS time. The fact you refuse to see the Mosaic law being played out in front of your eyes in the sacrifices of both of Adam's sons, Cain's judgment, and Abraham's sacrifice, means exactly what I said it does. Until repentance comes, you will not be able to see the truth. Repent and see how fast your vision changes. Peace
Where is the scripture to back up that claim? Remember if it does not say it in scripture then according to you it is not true.
10 Facts you don’t want to know so you better stop reading right now
*
FACT
Jeremiah said the lying pen of the scribes added to the Laws of Moses
FACT
Paul said all scripture (not bible) is given by inspiration of God
FACT
The bible in use in the time of Christ was the Septuagint.
FACT
The Septuagint contains these books- I Esdras, Tobit, Judith, I Maccabees, II Maccabees,
III Maccabees, IV Maccabees, Wisdom, Sirach, Baruch, Osee, Michaeas, Ambacum, Sophonias
Aggaeus
So if you do not believe these books are inspired by God as they were in the bible at the time Paul said all scripture is inspired by God are you not being hypocritical in your thoughts toward me for saying not everything in our bibles is scripture?
FACT
Justin Martyr in his discourse with Trypho the Jew stated that the scribes had deleted scriptures from the bible that plainly identified Jesus Christ as the Messiah.
FACT
These books I Esdras, Tobit, Judith, I Maccabees, II Maccabees,
III Maccabees, IV Maccabees, Wisdom, Sirach, Baruch, Osee, Michaeas, Ambacum, Sophonias
Aggaeus
Have been deleted out of almost every bible today. Proving man has tampered with God word, as they were in the bible when Paul said all scripture is inspired by God.
FACT
1John.5:7 And Mark.16:9-20 are not in the oldest and best manuscripts but are an interpolation.
Again proving man tampered with the bible.
FACT
The Babylonian Code of Hammurabi was written 200+ years before Moses wrote the law
FACT
The law of an eye for an eye comes from the Babylonian Code of Hammurabi
196
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If a man put out the eye of another man, his eye shall be put out. [ An eye for an eye ]
*
Now you know where the lying pen of the scribes stole the law an eye for an eye from, adding it to the Laws of Moses and attributed it to Moses.
FACT
I bet you wished you stopped reading when I suggested it
Whose basing what they don't understand? I understand just fine that the Mosaic law was written AFTER the Babylonian law and Jesus disagreed with it. I will trust Jesus view on it thanks.
It does not contradict scripture rbbi. It does however contradict the view of those who hold everything in the bible is scripture.
So I have to agree with you because you are right and I am wrong. I will let love of God and Gods love for humankind separate who is right and who is wrong.
Speaking of the eye for an eye law you stated
If something is not righteous it is unrighteous.
Where is the scripture to back up that claim? Remember if it does not say it in scripture then according to you it is not true.
No, it's your OPINION, which doesn't even line up with scholars anymore, as the link I showed you, proved. And it was NOT Jesus's view on it, nor the disciples, pertaining to the law.
Yes, it does. And I already showed you where in Galatians they said it's scripture, Jesus said it's scripture, and the disciples said it scripture. But we should listen to YOU, instead?
If you REALLY loved G-d, you would not try to destroy what no less than JESUS said HE did not come to destroy.
No, you changed what I said (reading comprehension problem again, or deliberate?). I said NOT THAT IT WAS NOT RIGHTEOUS, because Galatians just said it was. YOU are the one saying it's not righteous, AND ONLY YOU.
And you've been shown the scriptures pertaining to the validity of the scriptures probably a hundred times since I've been here, and they never make an impact on your OPINION. Again, until you repent, the truth will be remain hidden from you. I truly hope you do. Peace
Adam Clarke, an 18th Century Anglican Scholar, makes it clear that the work of the Masoretes is, in reality, a commentary which has been integrated into the body of Scripture. However, Clarke points out that the Hebrew of the Masoretic Text (Masoretic Hebrew) is quite different from the Hebrew of the Patriarchs, (Ancient Hebrew) in which Old Covenant Scripture was originally written.
In the General Preface of his commentary on the Scripture, published in 1810, Clarke writes:
"The Masorets were the most extensive Jewish commentators which that nation could ever boast. The system of punctuation, probably invented by them, is a continual gloss on the Law and the Prophets; their vowel points, and prosaic and metrical accents, &c., give every word to which they are affixed a peculiar kind of meaning, which in their simple state, multitudes of them can by no means bear. The vowel points alone add whole conjugations to the language. This system is one of the most artificial, particular, and extensive comments ever written on the Word of God; for there is not one word in the Bible that is not the subject of a particular gloss through its influence. This school is supposed to have commenced about 450 years before our Lord, and to have extended down to AD1030. Some think it did not commence before the 5th century A.D."
Even without adding to, deleting from, or changing a single letter of the Ancient Hebrew manuscripts of Scripture, pointing gave the Masorete power to dramatically change the meaning of almost any given passage of Scripture, for the prerogative of selecting vowels, is, to a large extent, the prerogative of selecting words! As a crude example, consider how the meaning of an English sentence might be changed by substitution of the word "poor" for the word "pure" – a substitution which may be effected by a simple change of vowels.
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