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Charlie is caught in a trap of his own making brother so he cannot or will not answer that question.
True, as revealed by his convoluted attempt below to justify it by creating a part of Hell called a paradise for the saved from before Jesus existed but that no longer exists. The question that immediately comes to mind is how could they possibly be saved before Jesus saved them???? Charlie is seriously confused.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie24
I've explained this before, a couple of times, but will do it again for you.
Jesus told the thief on the Cross, "today you shall we with me in Paradise." Luke 23:43
We know that Paradise is in the earth next to the burning side of hell, with a great gulf between the two that on one can pass from one side to the other.
In Luke 16 Jesus tells us about the rich man and Lazarus. Lazarus died and was carried by the angels into Abrahams bosom (Paradise). The rich man died and was buried and in Hell lifted his eyes being in torments.
16:26
"And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence."
Paradise, is where Jesus went to release all the saved from the beginning of man until His death on the Cross.
Eph. 4:8-10
"Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
(Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)"
Christ went down to Paradise, which is referred to as part of Hell at that time. It no longer exists as it has no more purpose now that the saved have been delivered.
Rev. 1:18
"I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death."
When Jesus rose from the dead He won the victory over death. He also defeated the legal hold of Satan on the dead in Christ. He went down to Paradise/Hell and took the keys of Hell and death previously owned by Satan. This is what released the saints of old from Paradise and they went to heaven.
True, as revealed by his convoluted attempt below to justify it by creating a part of Hell called a paradise for the saved from before Jesus existed but that no longer exists. The question that immediately comes to mind is how could they possibly be saved before Jesus saved them???? Charlie is seriously confused.
confusion is all one get from a belief in eternal torment and you are correct charlies post show that.
Come on, Charlie, make SOME effort to think instead of rote regurgitation of the dogma you have swallowed hook line and sinker. If Jesus went to Hell to release the prisoners there, then THEY DID get out of Hell, right?????
"For Christ also has once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: by which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was in preparation, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water....For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit."
Disobedient = apeitheō =
Not to allow to be persuaded.
To refuse belief and obedience.
None compliance.
Dead = nekros =
One that has breathed his last / lifeless.
Deceased / departed.
Destitute of life/ without life.
Live = zaō =
To live, breathe, be among the living (not lifeless, not dead)
Well, do you think that maybe when Paradise was emptied in hell (not the burning side) the saints took Paradise with them to heaven?
Paradise is a synonym for "heaven."
eek gad charlie the lengths one go to, to hold onto that which is unattainable
do you even see what you are saying? according to you paradise was emptied, so what reason would the saints have for taken that prison house with them?
eek gad charlie the lengths one go to, to hold onto that which is unattainable
do you even see what you are saying? according to you paradise was emptied, so what reason would the saints have for taken that prison house with them?
Plainly we see (oh no, not for you) that Abrahams bosom where Lazarus went was NOT heaven.
But you are not even trying to understand, there again, Charlie said it!
Since Christ emptied Paradise/Hell, Paul tells us "to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord."
The scripture tells us that Christ ascended into heaven and is sitting at the right hand of God. Is that where the Old Testament Lazarus went?
Plainly we see (oh no, not for you) that Abrahams bosom where Lazarus went was NOT heaven.
But you are not even trying to understand, there again, Charlie said it!
Since Christ emptied Paradise/Hell, Paul tells us "to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord."
The scripture tells us that Christ ascended into heaven and is sitting at the right hand of God. Is that where the Old Testament Lazarus went?
No it is not!
Charlie I have already shown you paradise is in the 3rd heaven, you say it was in the earth beneath.
You equate the prison house of hell with paradise even though NO scripture does so.
Then you say
Quote:
Paradise is a synonym for "heaven."
If that is so then heaven at one time according to you was a prison house in hell
you are so twisted up here charlie that it makes it almost impossible to untwist all your errors here.
Like I already said charlie your posts do more to undermine eternal torment then they do to promoting it.
Charlie I have already shown you paradise is in the 3rd heaven, you say it was in the earth beneath.
You equate the prison house of hell with paradise even though NO scripture does so.
Then you say
If that is so then heaven at one time according to you was a prison house in hell
you are so twisted up here charlie that it makes it almost impossible to untwist all your errors here.
Like I already said charlie your posts do more to undermine eternal torment then they do to promoting it.
Keep up the good work.
Exactly! Satan owned the soul of man by legal means when he deceived Adam and Eve. even though man who was saved could not enter heaven because of that. But when Jesus died on the Cross for the sins of man and confirmed it through His resurrection, man was brought back to relationship with God, no longer owned by Satan.
Jesus took from Satan legal ownership of the soul of man and gave that ownership back to God as the Second Adam that Paul tells us about. Christ undid what Adam had done, and He did it for us, because he loved us. The agape love that Mystic speaks of all the time!
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