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Again you are posting a non historian telling you what you want to here, try a actual church historian charlie. He is correct on one thing Origen was a firm believer in the salvation of all.
However his belief in the salvation of all was not why his teaching was declared heresy, it was his belief that we are spiritual beings who fell that was condemned.
Your link is twisting facts or outright lying charlie
If I'm twisting facts then show me what Origen couldn't show, show me in scripture where anyone gets out of hell.
You can pull your unclear scripture all day long, but show me where those plainly condemned to hell in scripture get of hell!
All Origen has was the same thing you have, an incomplete theory! There is no plain scripture that proves any of your or his claims.
If I'm twisting facts then show me what Origen couldn't show, show me in scripture where anyone gets out of hell.
You can pull your unclear scripture all day long, but show me where those plainly condemned to hell in scripture get of hell!
All Origen has was the same thing you have, an incomplete theory! There is no plain scripture that proves any of your or his claims.
Jesus Christ is the saviour of ALL MEN, first of those that believe, this command and teach.
And we do have an example of one getting out of hell charlie, his name is Jesus.
Now if the wages of sin is death and that death is eternal torment and Jesus paid that wage for us is Jesus still in eternal torment or did he get out?
Jesus Christ is the saviour of ALL MEN, first of those that believe, this command and teach.
And we do have an example of one getting out of hell charlie, his name is Jesus.
Now if the wages of sin is death and that death is eternal torment and Jesus paid that wage for us is Jesus still in eternal torment or did he get out?
Jesus went to hell to release the captives held by Satan that couldn't go to heaven until Christ paid mans sin debt on the Cross. While He was there he took the keys of death, hell and the grave, as the scripture says.
Surly you don't believe Jesus went to hell because He was a sinner as other men? But that is the only way it could possibly be taken from you, that He got out of hell!
That is some messed up stuff, pneuma! No wonder you believe in UR.
Jesus went to hell to release the captives held by Satan that couldn't go to heaven until Christ paid mans sin debt on the Cross. While He was there he took the keys of death, hell and the grave, as the scripture says.
So Jesus went to hell to release the captives being held there, so are those captives still in hell or did they get out?
And you have it backward he went to the cross before he descended into hell and led captivity captive.
Quote:
Surly you don't believe Jesus went to hell because He was a sinner as other men? But that is the only way it could possibly be taken from you, that He got out of hell!
That is some messed up stuff, pneuma! No wonder you believe in UR.
Now did I say anything as stupid as that, you simply dont understand how logic works, I gave you a logic problem that because of your belief in eternal torment you simply cannot answer.
So Jesus went to hell to release the captives being held there, so are those captives still in hell or did they get out?
And you have it backward he went to the cross before he descended into hell and led captivity captive.
Now did I say anything as stupid as that, you simply dont understand how logic works, I gave you a logic problem that because of your belief in eternal torment you simply cannot answer.
here again is your logic problem, try answering this time.
And we do have an example of one getting out of hell charlie, his name is Jesus.
Now if the wages of sin is death and that death is eternal torment and Jesus paid that wage for us is Jesus still in eternal torment or did he get out?
If I'm twisting facts then show me what Origen couldn't show, show me in scripture where anyone gets out of hell.
You can pull your unclear scripture all day long, but show me where those plainly condemned to hell in scripture get of hell!
All Origen has was the same thing you have, an incomplete theory! There is no plain scripture that proves any of your or his claims.
Come on, Charlie, make SOME effort to think instead of rote regurgitation of the dogma you have swallowed hook line and sinker. If Jesus went to Hell to release the prisoners there, then THEY DID get out of Hell, right?????
Come on, Charlie, make SOME effort to think instead of rote regurgitation of the dogma you have swallowed hook line and sinker. If Jesus went to Hell to release the prisoners there, then THEY DID get out of Hell, right?????
Charlie is caught in a trap of his own making brother so he cannot or will not answer that question.
So Jesus went to hell to release the captives being held there, so are those captives still in hell or did they get out?
And you have it backward he went to the cross before he descended into hell and led captivity captive.
Now did I say anything as stupid as that, you simply dont understand how logic works, I gave you a logic problem that because of your belief in eternal torment you simply cannot answer.
I've explained this before, a couple of times, but will do it again for you.
Jesus told the thief on the Cross, "today you shall we with me in Paradise." Luke 23:43
We know that Paradise is in the earth next to the burning side of hell, with a great gulf between the two that on one can pass from one side to the other.
In Luke 16 Jesus tells us about the rich man and Lazarus. Lazarus died and was carried by the angels into Abrahams bosom (Paradise). The rich man died and was buried and in Hell lifted his eyes being in torments.
16:26
"And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence."
Paradise, is where Jesus went to release all the saved from the beginning of man until His death on the Cross.
Eph. 4:8-10
"Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
(Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)"
Christ went down to Paradise, which is referred to as part of Hell at that time. It no longer exists as it has no more purpose now that the saved have been delivered.
Rev. 1:18
"I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death."
When Jesus rose from the dead He won the victory over death. He also defeated the legal hold of Satan on the dead in Christ. He went down to Paradise/Hell and took the keys of Hell and death previously owned by Satan. This is what released the saints of old from Paradise and they went to heaven.
I've explained this before, a couple of times, but will do it again for you.
Jesus told the thief on the Cross, "today you shall we with me in Paradise." Luke 23:43
We know that Paradise is in the earth next to the burning side of hell, with a great gulf between the two that on one can pass from one side to the other.
In Luke 16 Jesus tells us about the rich man and Lazarus. Lazarus died and was carried by the angels into Abrahams bosom (Paradise). The rich man died and was buried and in Hell lifted his eyes being in torments.
16:26
"And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence."
Paradise, is where Jesus went to release all the saved from the beginning of man until His death on the Cross.
Eph. 4:8-10
"Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
(Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)"
Christ went down to Paradise, which is referred to as part of Hell at that time. It no longer exists as it has no more purpose now that the saved have been delivered.
Rev. 1:18
"I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death."
When Jesus rose from the dead He won the victory over death. He also defeated the legal hold of Satan on the dead in Christ. He went down to Paradise/Hell and took the keys of Hell and death previously owned by Satan. This is what released the saints of old from Paradise and they went to heaven.
so you believe paradise is hell
and that parable is talking about the middle wall of partition ( the gulf) between the Jew and the Gentile and was broken down by Jesus Christ.
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