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Literal individual human beings are not going to be eternally tormented in any literal or figurative fire
Quote:
Originally Posted by justbyfaith
A lie from the pit.
Those who do not take warning will not take heed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meerkat2
The systems are a real problem and are to be reformed- that is what the reformation was about at that particular time
The 1500’s
It is a given that in the latter days the devil will have his way and sound doctrine will not any longer be upheld by the church; for that has been prophesied.
It is a given that in the latter days the devil will have his way and sound doctrine will not any longer be upheld by the church; for that has been prophesied.
As a side note. all Protestants believed the Papacy is Antichrist. It's even in the creeds. Can you spot the Antichrist (Papal) doctrines in all churches today that confirm He is still seated in the temple (Church) as Paul announced “Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.” 2 Thessalonians 2:3–4 (KJV 1900)
You are not making any sense. Read and understand:
Matt 5:22
22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger (G1777) of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger (G1777) of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger (G1777) of hell fire (GEHENNA).
The "danger" in this verse is Strong's G1777 ENOCHOS which has meanings relating to be liable in court - such as:
-bound, under obligation, subject to, liable
-used of one who is held by, possessed with love, and zeal for anything
-in a forensic sense, denoting the connection of a person either with his crime, or with the penalty or trial, or with that against whom or which he has offended
-guilty, worthy of punishment
-guilty of anything
-of the crime
-of the penalty
-liable to this or that tribunal i.e. the punishment to by imposed by this or that tribunal
-of the place where punishment is to be suffered
(Check your concordance to confirm)
It is not really meaning something "dangerous", but something you will be held liable for. Dangerous in the sense of something you will be accountable for.
You can even see it in the context.
- being angry with a brother -> judgment
- calling his brother RACA (a term of contempt) -> judgment by the council (local law)
- calling someone a fool -> GEHENNA. Its not "hell fire"; that is a biased translation. Again check your own concordance.
Now why would calling someone RACA only demand judgment by the local council, but calling someone a fool should lead to "hell"? You can see that "Hell fire" is a complete mistranslation here. None of these offenses are talking about any sort of eternal punishment.
Jesus is saying that you should resolve these matters yourself lest you be caught up in some form of judgment or trial. He is also using this as a parable for the larger matters of judgment in life. It was also common to use hyperbole. Gehenna was the local garbage dump where criminals were thrown - and it was possible if you got into a big argument you would end up there DEAD. That is what Jesus was talking about.
So being purified is something Jesus warns as being a danger ? Matt 5:22
But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
As a side note. all Protestants believed the Papacy is Antichrist. It's even in the creeds. Can you spot the Antichrist (Papal) doctrines in all churches today that confirm He is still seated in the temple (Church) as Paul announced “Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.” 2 Thessalonians 2:3–4 (KJV 1900)
I think the Protestant Reformers had it wrong. As much as I dislike the Pope, I don't believe he's the AntiChrist. The AntiChrist (called the "man of sin") is the "flesh" (Rom 7:18), also referred to as: the "natural man" (1Co 2:14), the "old man" (Rom 6:6, Eph 4:22, Col 3:9), the "carnal man/mind" (Rom 8:6-7), the "body of this death" (Rom 7:24), that is within all of us.
And, here are some reasons why I believe this:
There are two Kingdoms/Nations within every soul. Those two entities are called "flesh": the fleshly nature of the body derived from the earth, and "spirit": the spirit of man being the breath of God that gives life to the soul (Gen 2:7).
Those two entities are represented throughout scripture metaphorically as being the "seed of the serpent" and the "seed of the woman" (Gen 3:15).
As Cain and Abel (Heb 11:4), Esau and Jacob (Rom 9:13), the divided Kingdom of Israel and Judah (1Ki 22:10), the first man (Adam/earthly) and second man (Christ/heavenly) 1Co 15:47, goat and sheep (Mat 25:33), tares and wheat (Mat 13:38), good soil and bad soil (Eze 17:8 + Mat 13:19-23), good tree and bad tree (Mat 7:17), etc.
The two entities of the soul are said to lust against one another, being contrary to each other (Gal 5:17), persecuting each other, and doing so within us, even to this very day (Gal 4:29).
If we look at 2Th 2:3-4, Paul gives us a description of this "man of sin", here:
2Th 2:3 let no man beguile you in any wise; for it will not be, except the falling away come first, and the man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition,
2Th 2:4 he that opposeth and exalteth himself against all that is called God or that is worshipped, so that he sitteth in the temple of God as God, setting himself forth as God.
Paul describes this "man of sin" as being "revealed" or rather made "manifest". Paul tells us that "the works of the flesh" are also made "manifest" (Gal 5:19), wherein all will be judged according to their works (Mat 25:32-46, Rev 20:12-13).
Paul calls the "man of sin" the "son of perdition (Gk: απωλειας)", or rather the "son of destruction". Paul also tells us that the flesh is judged for "destruction" that the spirit will be saved in the day of the Lord (1Co 5:3-5).
Paul tells us that the "man of sin" opposes and exalts itself above God. Paul also tells us the works of the flesh are "idolatry and witchcraft" (Gal 5:20), and that the flesh lusts against and opposes itself against the Spirit of God (Gal 5:17).
Paul further tells us that this "man of sin" will "sit in the temple of God" and show/exhibit itself to be God. Did you ever ask yourself how this "man of sin" could even possibly enter into the "temple of God" and do so? Paul tells us that our body is the temple of the living God (1Co 3:16, 1Co 6:19), wherein the flesh also is found and manifests its works (Rom 7:18).
I believe the "man of sin" is the "flesh", the fleshly nature of the body, the "body of this death" that all in Christ will one day finally be delivered from (Rom 7:24). That God may be all in all (1Co 15:28).
So being purified is something Jesus warns as being a danger ? Matt 5:22
But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
The word being translated as "danger" in Mat 5:22 is "ἔνοχος" and means "libel". The Gk word for danger is "κινδυνεύω" (examples are found in Act 19:27 and 19:40). The KJV is not consistent with how it translates the same Gk word.
I think the Protestant Reformers had it wrong. As much as I dislike the Pope, I don't believe he's the AntiChrist. The AntiChrist (called the "man of sin") is the "flesh" (Rom 7:18), also referred to as: the "natural man" (1Co 2:14), the "old man" (Rom 6:6, Eph 4:22, Col 3:9), the "carnal man/mind" (Rom 8:6-7), the "body of this death" (Rom 7:24), that is within all of us.
And, here are some reasons why I believe this:
There are two Kingdoms/Nations within every soul. Those two entities are called "flesh": the fleshly nature of the body derived from the earth, and "spirit": the spirit of man being the breath of God that gives life to the soul (Gen 2:7).
Those two entities are represented throughout scripture metaphorically as being the "seed of the serpent" and the "seed of the woman" (Gen 3:15).
As Cain and Abel (Heb 11:4), Esau and Jacob (Rom 9:13), the divided Kingdom of Israel and Judah (1Ki 22:10), the first man (Adam/earthly) and second man (Christ/heavenly) 1Co 15:47, goat and sheep (Mat 25:33), tares and wheat (Mat 13:38), good soil and bad soil (Eze 17:8 + Mat 13:19-23), good tree and bad tree (Mat 7:17), etc.
The two entities of the soul are said to lust against one another, being contrary to each other (Gal 5:17), persecuting each other, and doing so within us, even to this very day (Gal 4:29).
If we look at 2Th 2:3-4, Paul gives us a description of this "man of sin", here:
2Th 2:3 let no man beguile you in any wise; for it will not be, except the falling away come first, and the man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition,
2Th 2:4 he that opposeth and exalteth himself against all that is called God or that is worshipped, so that he sitteth in the temple of God as God, setting himself forth as God.
Paul describes this "man of sin" as being "revealed" or rather made "manifest". Paul tells us that "the works of the flesh" are also made "manifest" (Gal 5:19), wherein all will be judged according to their works (Mat 25:32-46, Rev 20:12-13).
Paul calls the "man of sin" the "son of perdition (Gk: απωλειας)", or rather the "son of destruction". Paul also tells us that the flesh is judged for "destruction" that the spirit will be saved in the day of the Lord (1Co 5:3-5).
Paul tells us that the "man of sin" opposes and exalts itself above God. Paul also tells us the works of the flesh are "idolatry and witchcraft" (Gal 5:20), and that the flesh lusts against and opposes itself against the Spirit of God (Gal 5:17).
Paul further tells us that this "man of sin" will "sit in the temple of God" and show/exhibit itself to be God. Did you ever ask yourself how this "man of sin" could even possibly enter into the "temple of God" and do so? Paul tells us that our body is the temple of the living God (1Co 3:16, 1Co 6:19), wherein the flesh also is found and manifests its works (Rom 7:18).
I believe the "man of sin" is the "flesh", the fleshly nature of the body, the "body of this death" that all in Christ will one day finally be delivered from (Rom 7:24). That God may be all in all (1Co 15:28).
Anyway, just my own thoughts here.
Bless you, brother JJGuru! The Holy Spirit is with you!
Not a chance the Holy Spirit is with him...he's a gnostic.
Sadly, you completely reject the Holy Spiti as described, revealed, and demonstrated by Jesus Christ Himself so you have no authority to judge who has the Holy Spirit and who doesn't. You are so badly misguided by your brainwashing about the Bible, especially the primitive OT! It is sad, very sad!
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Bless you, brother JJGuru! The Holy Spirit is with you!
