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So you are comparing them, then? Not "equating" them?
Neither. I'm stating facts. They are both sexual sins.
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That's what you are going with? You do realize that by simply using one to talk of the other, you are equating them, right? Otherwise, you wouldn't be using one to make an argument against another. In fact, you equate them in the post I have quoted, by saying "Both are sinful. Both are sexual in nature."
Yes, BF, words do have meanings. You seem not to understand some of them though.
Not even close. Murder is a violent sin. So is a 7 year old boy on a playground hitting another kid. No one in their right mind would suggest that I'm equating the 2. But then, that doesn't follow the narrative you're looking for, does it?
Neither. I'm stating facts. They are both sexual sins.
Not even close. Murder is a violent sin. So is a 7 year old boy on a playground hitting another kid. No one in their right mind would suggest that I'm equating the 2. But then, that doesn't follow the narrative you're looking for, does it?
Have you ever used a 7 year old hitting someone on the playground to make a point about murder? That's the issue, BF. If you start saying something about pedophiles, to make a point about gay people, you are comparing/equating the two. Period. Maybe you don't mean to, don't mean it that way, or don't realize it, but you are. That isn't up for debate, it just is. You say you are "stating facts", and I am doing nothing more than the same.
This isn't hard, BF. You are saying they are both sexual sins. That right there, is equating the two. Do you honestly not understand that?
Have you ever used a 7 year old hitting someone on the playground to make a point about murder? That's the issue, BF. If you start saying something about pedophiles, to make a point about gay people, you are comparing/equating the two. Period. Maybe you don't mean to, don't mean it that way, or don't realize it, but you are. That isn't up for debate, it just is. You say you are "stating facts", and I am doing nothing more than the same.
This isn't hard, BF. You are saying they are both sexual sins. That right there, is equating the two. Do you honestly not understand that?
You might try smaller words. But I doubt that would work either.
You might try smaller words. But I doubt that would work either.
I mean, I feel like if BF has an honest bone in his body, he would understand this.... Note, I even said that maybe they don't even realize they are doing it, giving them a chance to say, "Maybe you are right. I won't do that anymore". He came back with the stuff about murderers and a 7 year old hitting someone....
Most pastors regularly perform ceremonies of remarriage. These are men of God who receive direct communication from God. If they were truly participating in a sinful ceremony, the Holy Spirit would most certainly convict them so obviously there are more factors at play here than your simplistic view.
We don't live in a world of absolutes. Everyone's life circumstances are different. The Bible even gives exceptions where divorce is completely permitted like having a partner engaging in sexual immorality or adultery. I can't see God being displeased or seeing it sinful to divorce a spouse that is abusive or expect us to remain in harmful toxic unions because of a law chiseled in stone. It's not the baker's job to probe and probe to see if a customer's re-marriage fits the Biblical definition of sin. What would you have them do? Force the customer to fill out a questionnaire? That is beyond silly.
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Originally Posted by Saintmarks
Wait......
Are you serious?
Jeff, from where do you get this bolded above information? What branch of fundamental evangelicalism teaches that there is a classification of Christians? Where in the scripture does it say that pastors receive direct revelation from God?
What? Are you serious? What concept of the priesthood of the believer have you been taught? You certainly didn't get this from study of scripture....
I would like to visit this again and have the larger group respond. It could have an insight into why these fundamentalist guys think the way they do. The pastor got the "revelation" from God that the bible condemns homosexuality in any and all ways it is expressed. It was preached from the pulpit so it was a "direct communication" from God to the pastor for all in the church to follow and believe.
Therefore any insight that has been presented here as to how the verses used to condemn homosexuality do not, in fact, condemn homosexuality as an orientation or condemn it as an expression of love between two consenting adults has fallen on dear ears. Why? Because the pastor that got this directly from God says otherwise.
I was raised in conservative evangelical circles that certainly DID NOT give such power to the pastor. There was a belief that the pastor would be given insight from God on how to properly shepherd his flock, but there was certainly no doctrine that taught the pastor had a direct line to God that the flock did not have. If anything this branch of the church is congregational and does not give super powers to the heirarchy. Have things changed this much?
Interesting to note that the essay from the Methodist pastor in Alabama I presented was not given any heed from these guys. He's a pastor so that was direct communication from God, right?
Have you ever used a 7 year old hitting someone on the playground to make a point about murder? That's the issue, BF. If you start saying something about pedophiles, to make a point about gay people, you are comparing/equating the two. Period. Maybe you don't mean to, don't mean it that way, or don't realize it, but you are. That isn't up for debate, it just is. You say you are "stating facts", and I am doing nothing more than the same.
They're both violence. They're both sinful. They are not equal, and stating both are violent and sinful does not make it so. At least not in the mind of a rational person.
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This isn't hard, BF. You are saying they are both sexual sins. That right there, is equating the two. Do you honestly not understand that?
They're both sexual sins. That's fact. That's all it is. They are not equal. Nowhere have I ever suggested it. To suggest it is simply dishonest.
They are not equal, and stating both are violent and sinful does not make it so. At least not in the mind of a rational person.
IF you use one to make a point about the other, which is the case with Jeff/gay people/pedos, then you are stating they are the same. Or at the very least, that you believe they should be considered equal enough that they are interchangeable in your argument. What would you call it, in that case, if not comparing or equating, BF??
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Originally Posted by BaptistFundie
They're both sexual sins. That's fact. That's all it is. They are not equal. Nowhere have I ever suggested it. To suggest it is simply dishonest.
I was talking of Jeff, specifically, not you, first off. Second off, if you use pedophilia to make a point about homosexuality, whether you mean it that way or not, you are comparing/equating the two. Period. It doesn't matter if you don't mean it that way. It would be like me using fundamentalist Muslims to make a point about fundie Christians. Or making a point about fundie Christians and nazis or something.
Oh, and I think you need to look up what a "fact" is, because you clearly don't understand that word either.
IF you use one to make a point about the other, which is the case with Jeff/gay people/pedos, then you are stating they are the same. Or at the very least, that you believe they should be considered equal enough that they are interchangeable in your argument. What would you call it, in that case, if not comparing or equating, BF??
I was talking of Jeff, specifically, not you, first off. Second off, if you use pedophilia to make a point about homosexuality, whether you mean it that way or not, you are comparing/equating the two. Period. It doesn't matter if you don't mean it that way. It would be like me using fundamentalist Muslims to make a point about fundie Christians. Or making a point about fundie Christians and nazis or something.
Oh, and I think you need to look up what a "fact" is, because you clearly don't understand that word either.
And that point has been made to Jeff repeatedly, to no avail. Which means he either intends to equate them or... well, no “either”. It means he intends to do so. And anyone who reads this post of yours and continues to post in that manner is also intending to do so.
Hey BF, tell me if Jeff is comparing or equating the two in this post of his, from the previous thread on this topic...
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Originally Posted by jeffbase40
What does consent have anything to do with it? They still have the orientation to sexually desire children. It's beyond their control.
You can search that thread, and his name, and you will come up with several doozies. Like him saying a Christian making a cake for a gay wedding is like someone selling a dog to someone for them eat.
And that point has been made to Jeff repeatedly, to no avail. Which means he either intends to equate them or... well, no “either”. It means he intends to do so. And anyone who reads this post of yours and continues to post in that manner is also intending to do so.
Exactly, Pleroo. This isn't hard to understand. Whether they mean to equate the two or not is irrelevant, and to continue to do so, and make excuses about it, seems to show their true intention.
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