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Poor Danny seems to be a product of an ascetic temperance family who mistakenly focuses on WHAT is usually considered sin instead of the WHY (state of mind) that makes it sinful (missing the mark). Like most things in life, consuming alcohol, per se, is not sinful, but why it is being consumed CAN BE! Paraphrasing what Paul said, nothing is of itself sinful, but to the man who considers it sinful, it is sinful.
So fornication isnt always sinful? According to your interpretation of Paul's words? Homosexual lifestyle isn't always sinful? Thats absurd.
Wine was always an ambiguous word. Many words possess ambiguity, so don't rely only on one things, look at historical evidence on wine making before drawing a conclusion.
So fornication isnt always sinful? According to your interpretation of Paul's words? Homosexual lifestyle isn't always sinful? Thats absurd.
No, it's not absurd. 2000 years ago, a couple could become married by the fact that they had sex. So, no, fornication isn't always sinful. You'd have to define "homosexual lifestyle" before anybody could answer that question, but it isn't sinful in and of itself to be homosexual.
Wine was always an ambiguous word. Many words possess ambiguity, so don't rely only on one things, look at historical evidence on wine making before drawing a conclusion.
Wine is alcoholic. Sorry if that upsets you, but it is true. Alcohol, fermentation, and boiling are all processes that make water safe to drink by killing bacteria. Until recent times, drinking alcohol was the safe way to consume water. People had beer for breakfast, and even gave children wine with their dinner.
A hot topic that is mostly debated by the uneducated people on ancient wine making methods is the question: what kind of wine did Jesus make? The Bible gives the response of a man who claims it was "good" wine, what did the ancients consider as being good? A simple study of historical writings would clarify what was the "good" wine. Does anybody have insight into the ancient wine making methods? There are apparently multiple writings throughout history, both B.C. and A.D. on the universal agreement on "good", speaking in a general sense.
They had to have already been serving a very good wine at the wedding to have 'run out',
which means that what Jesus made must have been quite exquisite to catch the 'head masters' attention'.
Note that Jesus, the ultimate winemaker, didn't even have to take a taste himself before having one drawn for the head master!
And the 'after the party' party was definitely ON, by Jesus, as He made over 100 gallons of it!!!
Had to be quite the shindig - people are still talking about it 2000 years later!
Don't forget to invite Jesus and His mom to your next wedding!
No, it's not absurd. 2000 years ago, a couple could become married by the fact that they had sex. So, no, fornication isn't always sinful. You'd have to define "homosexual lifestyle" before anybody could answer that question, but it isn't sinful in and of itself to be homosexual.
Marriage laws differ from cultures, but fornication is fornication. Homosexual lifestyle i will define as sexual relationships between same genders, where does the bible condone that?
If Jesus and the disciples drank wine, repeatedly, then it couldn't have been a sin.
The allegations of sinning here are clearly and blatantly a product of the church and organized religion. It and its minions continue to hold this torch (of drinking wine is a sin) high. It's no different than other obvious ideas they've created. A bunch of pathetic control freaks...
Last edited by Thoreau424; 07-08-2021 at 11:30 AM..
Wine is alcoholic. Sorry if that upsets you, but it is true. Alcohol, fermentation, and boiling are all processes that make water safe to drink by killing bacteria. Until recent times, drinking alcohol was the safe way to consume water. People had beer for breakfast, and even gave children wine with their dinner.
Wine didn't always mean fermented according to history, you are uneducated in this area. Aristotle wrote about this subject, the Mishna states that the jews were in habit of using boiled wine- Kitto, vol II. page. 477
W.G. Brown who traveled to Syria from 1792-1798 said that Syrians prepared wine by boiling immediately after pressing grapes until it was thick, then put it in jars to preserve.
Volney. 1788 in his Travels in Syria, vol ii. Chapter 29 said they boiled fresh pressed wine to preserve.
Pliny and Virgil said "in order to make wine keep, they used to boil the must down to one half when its called defruntum and boiled down to one third for sapa."
Horace, born in 65 b.c. said a lot of the same things, so much you don't know, but if you just do a little research then you will see for yourself, wine was a generic work in Hebrew and greek, why not Google a few things about this and then make a rational conclusion?
If Jesus and the disciples drank wine, repeatedly, then it couldn't have been a sin or an issue.
The allegations of sinning here are clearly and blatantly a product of the church and organized religion. It and its minions continue to hold this torch (of drinking wine is a sin) high. It's no different than other obvious ideas they've created, such as dancing is a sin, etc. A bunch of clueless control freaks...
This chapter (John 2:1-12) indeed harmonizes deeply rich with meaning;
consider how it begins: "On the third day..."
What is the spirit, thru John, really telling us here..?
There is indeed someone who wishes for all to abstain from partaking in Jesus's 'wedding wine', but it sure ain't Jesus!
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