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There are hundreds of errors in the King James Translation. Some are trivial and some are more important. Some are because other manuscripts have been discovered in the past 400 years. Some are because the old languages are better understood.
Do an Internet search for "errors in the King James translation." There are many web sites. Some of them are written by well respected scholars, teachers, and researchers. It's not just one person's opinion.
I think people like the KJV because the language is in an old style and it reads beautifully. That doesn't make it the best translation of the Hebrew or Greek documents. It was created from Latin translations, so it was already at least one translation away from the originals.
That might make an interesting thread (although I doubt that many will discuss it reasonably), but it really is off topic for this thread about what kind of wine Jesus made.
There are hundreds of errors in the King James Translation. Some are trivial and some are more important. Some are because other manuscripts have been discovered in the past 400 years. Some are because the old languages are better understood.
Do an Internet search for "errors in the King James translation." There are many web sites. Some of them are written by well respected scholars, teachers, and researchers. It's not just one person's opinion.
I think people like the KJV because the language is in an old style and it reads beautifully. That doesn't make it the best translation of the Hebrew or Greek documents. It was created from Latin translations, so it was already at least one translation away from the originals.
That might make an interesting thread (although I doubt that many will discuss it reasonably), but it really is off topic for this thread about what kind of wine Jesus made.
I agree with you there, kjv isn't perfect, none are, asv is better, I use nasv and nkjv and textus receptus.
About the ancient wines, have you tried any research at all? I'm sure you could find something to present to us all. If you can research the kjv translation errors then you have all the great ability to find the historic truth about preservation of unfermented wine by ancient civilizations. I dont want to be the only one here presenting facts.
If one can show that it was common practice of ancients to preserve unfermented wine for long periods of time, then it is plausible that the common wine was the sweet, unfermented wine.
That is a valid argument, it deserves attention by any serious Bible student. Would you choose the rational, honest and sincere approach at historical evidence about this subject in order to gain complete truth?
I agree with you there, kjv isn't perfect, none are, asv is better, I use nasv and nkjv and textus receptus.
About the ancient wines, have you tried any research at all? I'm sure you could find something to present to us all. If you can research the kjv translation errors then you have all the great ability to find the historic truth about preservation of unfermented wine by ancient civilizations. I dont want to be the only one here presenting facts.
If one can show that it was common practice of ancients to preserve unfermented wine for long periods of time, then it is plausible that the common wine was the sweet, unfermented wine.
That is a valid argument, it deserves attention by any serious Bible student. Would you choose the rational, honest and sincere approach at historical evidence about this subject in order to gain complete truth?
The process to produce unfermented grape juice was invented in 1869. I'm firmly convinced that no regular, routine use of unfermented grape juice was common before that time. Knowing a little about the history, as related to beer making, I am certain enough than any reference to wine 2000 years ago was to fermented wine. Any examples to the contrary are going to be rare, outlying examples.
It's much healthier and easier to just accept that Jesus and the disciples drank standard alcoholic wine, then to squirm and wrestle with the matter in a jittery, emotional, churchy style.
It's all about moderation. A few nuts can be a good source of protein, but a couple of bucket fulls will usually be too much fat for the body in one dose. Some sunshine on the skin can boost Vitamin D and help the body, but too much can lead to sunburn, or worse, skin cancer. This is no different. Many researchers around the world have even pointed to health benefits to wine in small amounts. Jesus never said "don't drink wine"; he said "don't get drunk on wine".
Jesus and his disciples understood what was going on. Too bad so many now are lost and clueless in the churches, and listening to them instead of reading the scriptures and getting an understand of what was originally going on. They should just throw away the Bible if it's going to take a distant backseat to the pew and pulpit ramblings.
Last edited by Thoreau424; 07-09-2021 at 11:02 AM..
It's much healthier and easier to just accept that Jesus and the disciples drank standard alcoholic wine, then to squirm and wrestle with the matter in a jittery, emotional, churchy style.
It's all about moderation. A few nuts can be a good source of protein, but a couple of bucket fulls will usually be too much fat for the body in one dose. Some sunshine on the skin can boost Vitamin D and help the body, but too much can lead to sunburn, or worse, skin cancer. This is no different. Many researchers around the world have even pointed to health benefits to wine in small amounts.
Jesus and his disciples understood what was going on. Too bad so many now are lost and clueless in the church, and listening to them instead of reading the scriptures and getting an understand of what was originally going on. They should just throw away the Bible if it's going to take a back seat to the pew and pulpit ramblings.
The born again Christian must make a decision about alcohol. The scripture is not clear if Jesus drank alcohol or not, but we can look to Noah and see it's not wise.
The first thing he did after the flood was to grow a vineyard and make wine from it, then got drunk. We can read and see the result of this and see it wasn't fun for Noah.
This is the man God found worthy to live by his faith when all others besides his family were destroyed. We can all make the same mistake and I say give sin no chance in this life!
No one is going to hell for drinking a glass of wine from time to time, or a beer, or a shot of whisky. But being a Christian and following Christ, is that a good testimony to a new convert who has much to learn yet? That is what the scripture calls a stumbling block set before your brother.
Paul said there are many things at his liberty but some he denies to keep from being that stumbling block. We've got to think of what we are doing! We have to take responsibility for our actions.
The choice I have made does not mean I'm right and you are wrong! But my choice eliminates the possibility of being a stumbling block before others and the sin I may commit when I over indulge.
I think too many try to wrack their minds to dive into a Conspiracy of sorts was it fermented wine or also a unfermented process that preserved Grape Juice.
Seems to me that the alcohol was a necessary aspect to even aid with bacteria in drinking water. I always just felt the reasonable simple explanation was that they used a WATERED Down Alcohol Wine for a Table wine. Aiding in keeping the water less likely to have parasites intact after some alcohol.
Seems more is written in how the ancient Greeks and Romans diluted wine for drinking.
Alcohol does have a strong anti-bacterial effect,and adding water to wine was a way to create more drink as there was very little clean drinking water. Microbes in water if a issue.... might have enough alcohol from adding wine to keep that in check?
Seems for the Romans and Greeks everyone, including young children, drank wine all the time from the beginning of the day until night, dilution was important in order to prevent the people from getting to drunk by the end of the day. In effect, the reliance on wine for hydration meant dilution could kill two birds with one stone.
Perhaps this is not correct of the Greeks and Romans or the land of Palestine at the time even Romans occupied it?
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